Training to be a Youth Pastor

[Rickeo]

Hi everyone,

Am now training to be a Youth Pastor studying a Certificate in Theology then working my way up to a diploma then finally a bachelors degree in theology :)

So yea my ambition to be a youth pastor :)

So if any of you have any questions I could help with or answer throw them at me :)

This thread isn't to slate me for being a Christian and all questions that are rude or just trying to slate me will be ignored :)

However if anyone wants to ask me a question on pain/suffering etc or a question you are to shy to ask at church or are confused about anything in the Bible feel free to ask away :D

God Bless

Rick

[*Jess*]

Good for you :) Probably a very fulfilling job.


In what area of Manchester are you, by the way, if you don't mind me asking?

[Rickeo]

Thanks Jess :)

Not to far from Rochdale tbh :) if you know HYDE area that is where I am, Hattersley to be exact :)

Rick

[green hooligan]

Hi everyone,

Am now training to be a Youth Pastor studying a Certificate in Theology then working my way up to a diploma then finally a bachelors degree in theology :)

So yea my ambition to be a youth pastor :)

So if any of you have any questions I could help with or answer throw them at me :)

This thread isn't to slate me for being a Christian and all questions that are rude or just trying to slate me will be ignored :)

However if anyone wants to ask me a question on pain/suffering etc or a question you are to shy to ask at church or are confused about anything in the Bible feel free to ask away :D

God Bless

Rick


What would you do with all the adults and children suffering from pain in Lesotho?

[Rickeo]

What would I do?? Personally??

Good question, I have had to research a little about this country and it is sad the sheer poverty in South Africa I have done a little bit of work and given money before to Christian projects that are helping out in Durban South Africa.

It is a sad situation if your asking what I could do. Well prayer is my only answer I would love to go there and help out and maybe at one point in my life I will I know there are a few Christian projects in Durban and other areas of South Africa trying to improve living situations and are doing well.

On such a huge scale I can't take away the pain and suffering from over here in the UK I can do as much as I can such as prayer and donations of support but I can't solve all the problems as I am one man and there are dozens of countries in the same of if not worse poverty.

Prayer I believe can help and financial support is paramount to enable Christian and none Christian agencies such as tearfund and oxfam to reach out to these people and improve living situations.

:)

If that doesn't answer your question if you wanted to elaborate I could try and provide a better answer.

Also any questions you may not want to post publicly about can be emailed to me:

rick@adviceforall.org.uk :)

God Bless

Rick

[green hooligan]

What would I do?? Personally??

Good question, I have had to research a little about this country and it is sad the sheer poverty in South Africa I have done a little bit of work and given money before to Christian projects that are helping out in Durban South Africa.

It is a sad situation if your asking what I could do. Well prayer is my only answer I would love to go there and help out and maybe at one point in my life I will I know there are a few Christian projects in Durban and other areas of South Africa trying to improve living situations and are doing well.

On such a huge scale I can't take away the pain and suffering from over here in the UK I can do as much as I can such as prayer and donations of support but I can't solve all the problems as I am one man and there are dozens of countries in the same of if not worse poverty.

Prayer I believe can help and financial support is paramount to enable Christian and none Christian agencies such as tearfund and oxfam to reach out to these people and improve living situations.

:)

If that doesn't answer your question if you wanted to elaborate I could try and provide a better answer.

Also any questions you may not want to post publicly about can be emailed to me:

rick@adviceforall.org.uk :)

God Bless

Rick

Lesotho is in an area of the world know as THE DOLDRUMS. The people live more than 500 meters above sea-level. Around half are labelled as AIDS infected. This information should get you thinking.

[Rickeo]

The main information I got about this place was from here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/country_profiles/1063291.stm) I would not turn my back on someone just because they have AIDS in Durban there is a small orphanage Soul Action is working in and the majority of Children have AIDS this doesn't affect us helping them they are human and need love and care just like everyone else.

Due to the people living here being restricted to care because of the difficulties of where they live it's sad 500 meters above sea level doesn't help them but I am sure there are agencies working with these people to try and change there life style :)

God Bless

Rick

[tf_arl_90]

Would you be able to explain to me the point in praying to God? :)

[Rickeo]

Would you be able to explain to me the point in praying to God? :)

This is such an amazing question and one I have heard a few times before my friend :)
And I can see where you are coming from here is something I have been asked similar in the past:


Why pray to an omniscient god? After all, it by definition knows whatever you’re about to say already. There is absolutely nothing you can tell an omniscient god. There is no point in communicating your desires to it, because it knows already, even before you yourself are aware of them.

I had that put to me which I found very very interesting, and if you want scriptural references please just ask me and I will be happy to give them to you :) but am going to approach this question on more of a personal level.

When we look at why God created us we find throughout the Bible repeatedly signs that God created us for a relationship with us, we as humans depend on a relationship without the communication of others we would go mad we would die inside because relationship and communication means everything to us.

So yes God is all knowing he knows what your thinking and feeling he knows what your going to say way before you say it so what is the point in praying you may ask?

Let me put it like this to you.


Genesis 1:27

God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

This shows God created us in his own image he created us to want a relationship.

Have you ever spoke to a girlfriend/boyfriend/brother/sister friend or family member and knew something was wrong with them you know something is wrong but yet you still ask are you ok? Or you ask them what is up. Just because you know there hurting (it can be so plain as day) but just because you know this doesn't mean you don't want them to talk to you about it.

Have you ever had it where you can tell someone doesn't like you or they have something against you but you just keep quiet about it.

See we can know things we can know how people are feeling or what they are thinking but there are times when we just want them to talk to us about there issues though we already know there thoughts and feelings we can help more when those people come to us talk to us and ask.

God is just the same it's about developing a relationship with him prayer doesn't have to be like a ritual it is talking to your Father with respect no fancy words just talking sometimes a desperate cry for help, it's funny how the most simple of prayers can be the most beautiful.


Matthew 7:7

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

God knows what we want but he wants us to ask he wants us to communicate with him.

Once I had a friend I was so angry with because he did something really bad to me he knew I was mad at him I made it so obvious but he didn't talk to me nor did I talk to him about it I was just awkward with him.

Our friendship started to go down hill and it was when I finally got up the courage to say why the heck did you do this to me that I found out actually he wasn't in the wrong at all. And our friendship was put right.

You see my arrogance and me not willing simply to ask him if he had done this bad thing had a huge knock on affect to our relationship.

God wants us to ask God wants us to communicate with him, what is the point in having a Father you don't talk to you don't ask things of yea he knows how your feeling just like our parents know how we are feeling when we are sad or angry but they still want us to talk to them at times.

So in summary the importance of prayer is to communicate with a God for we were made for communication it develops our spiritual relationship with God, and after all communication does make us feel closer to those we communicate with, God knows this and that is why it is in his will that we ask and communicate with him on a regular basis :)

Sorry it's 4am here so that response is a little jumbled up as am still very tired but if I have made something unclear just ask :)

Hope that helps feel free to email me or ask another question :)

rick@adviceforall.org.uk

God Bless :)

Rick

[green hooligan]

[quote=Rickeo;282837]This is such an amazing question and one I have heard a few times before my friend :)
And I can see where you are coming from here is something I have been asked similar in the past:



I had that put to me which I found very very interesting, and if you want scriptural references please just ask me and I will be happy to give them to you :) but am going to approach this question on more of a personal level.

When we look at why God created us we find throughout the Bible repeatedly signs that God created us for a relationship with us, we as humans depend on a relationship without the communication of others we would go mad we would die inside because relationship and communication means everything to us.

The post is flawed. Mother Nature created us and religion is very much on the floor in the UK.



So yes God is all knowing he knows what your thinking and feeling he knows what your going to say way before you say it so what is the point in praying you may ask?



Let me put it like this to you.



This shows God created us in his own image he created us to want a relationship.

Have you ever spoke to a girlfriend/boyfriend/brother/sister friend or family member and knew something was wrong with them you know something is wrong but yet you still ask are you ok? Or you ask them what is up. Just because you know there hurting (it can be so plain as day) but just because you know this doesn't mean you don't want them to talk to you about it.

Have you ever had it where you can tell someone doesn't like you or they have something against you but you just keep quiet about it.

Millions of girls have had it with somebody they did not particularly like and very often for cash but they kept quiet. We call it keeping mum in the UK.


See we can know things we can know how people are feeling or what they are thinking but there are times when we just want them to talk to us about there issues though we already know there thoughts and feelings we can help more when those people come to us talk to us and ask.

God is just the same it's about developing a relationship with him prayer doesn't have to be like a ritual it is talking to your Father with respect no fancy words just talking sometimes a desperate cry for help, it's funny how the most simple of prayers can be the most beautiful.



God knows what we want but he wants us to ask he wants us to communicate with him.

British girls certainly know what they want and make the effort to get it by communicating with their mobiles

Once I had a friend I was so angry with because he did something really bad to me he knew I was mad at him I made it so obvious but he didn't talk to me nor did I talk to him about it I was just awkward with him.

Our friendship started to go down hill and it was when I finally got up the courage to say why the heck did you do this to me that I found out actually he wasn't in the wrong at all. And our friendship was put right.

You see my arrogance and me not willing simply to ask him if he had done this bad thing had a huge knock on affect to our relationship.

God wants us to ask God wants us to communicate with him, what is the point in having a Father you don't talk to you don't ask things of yea he knows how your feeling just like our parents know how we are feeling when we are sad or angry but they still want us to talk to them at times.

So in summary the importance of prayer is to communicate with a God for we were made for communication it develops our spiritual relationship with God, and after all communication does make us feel closer to those we communicate with, God knows this and that is why it is in his will that we ask and communicate with him on a regular basis :)

Sorry it's 4am here so that response is a little jumbled up as am still very tired but if I have made something unclear just ask :)

Your jumbled outpourings would have been no different if written at 4pm. We call it thought disorder in the UK.

Hope that helps feel free to email me or ask another question :)

Any e-mails from you would be mind-blowing and not recommended. Anyway. our girls and boys are already doing enough puffing and blowing. Thanks..

[Rickeo]

green_hooligan you clearly have nothing better to do than trash others threads, if you were as bright as you made out you would have taken the time to read my first post asking people like yourself not to bother posting in this thread your wasting others and my own time and I'm not going to debate with you over matter of opinion :)

God Bless

Rick

[tf_arl_90]

The post is flawed. Mother Nature created us and religion is very much on the floor in the UK.

Millions of girls have had it with somebody they did not particularly like and very often for cash but they kept quiet. We call it keeping mum in the UK.

British girls certainly know what they want and make the effort to get it by communicating with their mobiles
Your jumbled outpourings would have been no different if written at 4pm. We call it thought disorder in the UK.

Any e-mails from you would be mind-blowing and not recommended. Anyway. our girls and boys are already doing enough puffing and blowing. Thanks..

He's offering his explanations from a Christian perspective. Telling him "No, you're wrong, Mother Nature created us, not God" contributes absolutely nothing constructive or remotely interesting to the discussion.

How ridiculously trollish and off topic.

[tf_arl_90]

So in summary the importance of prayer is to communicate with a God for we were made for communication it develops our spiritual relationship with God, and after all communication does make us feel closer to those we communicate with, God knows this and that is why it is in his will that we ask and communicate with him on a regular basis :)

Your response was fine, thanks.

But isn't it a one way street when it comes to communication? When does God ever answer back? Is it just by doing things for people? "Miracles" I guess you can call them?

[Rickeo]

But isn't it a one way street when it comes to communication? When does God ever answer back? Is it just by doing things for people? "Miracles" I guess you can call them?

You ask some amazing questions, all these things I have thought about myself at one time or another.

Miracles are a good way to look at it but I believe God communicates with us so much more than through Miracles.

I would like to bring to your attention the story in the Bible.

Exodus 3 v 5 , the Lord spoke to [Moses] and said, ‘Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground’

What amazes me about this is Moses had been walking this ground for years did it just become holy like that just like *poof* this ground is now holy I don't think so.

See sometimes we can be so caught up in our loves rush around that we fail to hear things we fail to hear God.

See how fast a year goes, a day goes, an hour goes. But just sit there in silence and that hour can take forever because we are so busy time flies by but we fail to notice the little things, the important things in life.

All to many times I have heard people say God why has this bad thing happened to me why has this bad thing happened to this person I don't deserve this etc etc.

But when a baby is born, when someone wins the lottery etc etc you hear the words thank you God very rarely it is easy to communicate and blame God through the hard times but when things go well we don't communicate back.

I think it's through the little things when you see something that leaves you breathless for me that's things like the sunrise or a baby smiling I think little things like that the good times God communicates with us, if we bother asking and praying to him and give him a chance to answer our prayers you will see he does communicate back.

His communication is not on a physical level though it's on a spiritual level we just have to start to open ourselves to hearing him.

Take time out to spend with God after all with so many things going on and our lives in a chaotic rush how would it be possible to hear anyone never mind God :)

Rick

[-Michael-]

Okay Hooligan,

Stop trolling otherwise you will receive an infraction which would lead to a ban if you keep this up.

[Shiro Yuri]

This is an interesting question my friend posed to me. I couldn't figure it out.

"If, as Christianity claims, we are born sinful [Original Sin], and we are supposedly created in God's own image [Genesis 1:27] surely as such, even God himself is sinful. Subsequently, does it not seem somewhat wasteful to praise somebody who by definition is no different to us?"

[tf_arl_90]

But when a baby is born, when someone wins the lottery etc etc you hear the words thank you God very rarely it is easy to communicate and blame God through the hard times but when things go well we don't communicate back.

His communication is not on a physical level though it's on a spiritual level we just have to start to open ourselves to hearing him.

OK. I can definitely understand how people consider prayer a way to improve their relationship with God. But, if his communication is on a spiritual level, not a physical level, why do people pray for physical things?

Is it possible that when people win the lotto, it's not really God's doing? Is it possible that the person wins the lotto just because their number happened to be picked? When a baby is born, is it God's doing, or is it because the two parents came together to make that baby?

The only point in thanking God for these things that I can see, is if you believe that God is responsible for doing everything. God made it so that your lotto number was picked, and God made it so that those two people would meet and have a child together.

So, if God is responsible for everything, He obviously has a plan for us all, right? Can people's prayers really change this plan?

[tf_arl_90]

This is an interesting question my friend posed to me. I couldn't figure it out.

"If, as Christianity claims, we are born sinful [Original Sin], and we are supposedly created in God's own image [Genesis 1:27] surely as such, even God himself is sinful. Subsequently, does it not seem somewhat wasteful to praise somebody who by definition is no different to us?"

I'll echo this a little -

If God created everything, and evil is part of 'everything', then God created evil. Yes?

If yes, why is evil "bad" but the Creator of evil "good" ?

[*Jess*]

[Boring William Blake Geekiness] on the question stated above, " If God created everything, and evil is part of 'everything', then God created evil. Yes?"

I HAVE A POEM FOR THIS OCCASION (I seem to have one for all occasions recently :), but this is pretty famous and my favourite and I'm excited because I'm actually able to use it without people shouting at me :D)


"Tiger tiger burning bright,
in the forest of the night,
what immortal hand or eye
could frame thy fearful symmetry?"

That's the first stanza of a VERY long poem, but it is asking why God created the tiger- a natural predator which is deadly, but beautiful and bright.

Then later he asks, "did he who made the lamb make thee?". Did God, who created good, also create evil which overrides the good and goes against Jesus and his teachings of innocence (the Lamb could be said to be Jesus; the lamb is a symbol of Jesus as the sacrifice). So did the same person who created the tiger, create "the lamb"? It's almost like asking, did he who create the devil, create the angel? In a real world this is undoubtedly relevant, did he create suffering and the evil in people, as well as the good within the world?

[/William Blake Geekiness]


Just thought it was worth talking about. :(

[ficti0n]

I am not religous at all, although I have a lot of respect for those who can find faith. So good on you Rickeo, good luck with everything.

[Shiro Yuri]

I'll echo this a little -

If God created everything, and evil is part of 'everything', then God created evil. Yes?

If yes, why is evil "bad" but the Creator of evil "good" ?
Ahaha, the very same friend gave me an answer to that one. He was talking about the slaughter in a city of the Promised Land...

"God TRANSFORMS evil into good and good into evil. What was evil, murdering a city, full of children, BECOMES good, and what was good, NOT murdering a city, full of children, becomes evil. It takes a God to make evil good and good evil, an evil man can only CALL evil good. God makes it true, and punishes the evil."

[*Jess*]

I still think my poem helps with that question :(

[Shiro Yuri]

Ha ha, it does help somewhat. Though, I was always more a fan of his Auguries Of Innocence, myself.

[*Jess*]

The Lamb's good from the innocence, but I rather like the experience myself. They have more to write about :D


*shuts up.

[Rickeo]

Jess I like that Stanza it raises a valid point and am going to answer all of your questions individually but since there have been rather a few posts and questions since I last posted I am going to answer each individuals question in a separate post thus meaning you wont have to read a huge post and it also means you can just read answers directed at you if you like as I will answer them in the order they were asked.

I will attempt to answer them as fast as I can but please bear with me as I am being distracted with the British Soap Awards lol ;).

I would also like to take the time to thanks the members of this board for there questions, and both the members and moderators and members for the support you have given me to keep this thread friendly and civil :)

If the moderators would rather my replies be in one large post feel free to merge them and accept my apologies :)

God Bless

Rick

HERE COMES THE FIRST ANSWER.........

[Rickeo]

This is an interesting question my friend posed to me. I couldn't figure it out.

"If, as Christianity claims, we are born sinful [Original Sin], and we are supposedly created in God's own image [Genesis 1:27] surely as such, even God himself is sinful. Subsequently, does it not seem somewhat wasteful to praise somebody who by definition is no different to us?"

Good question, thanks for posting it :)

I think it is fairly early on in the book of Genesis we can get the answers to this.

When God created us he created us in his own image, from this we presume he means by looks but we also do believe it was in his LIKENESS as that is what the Bible says:

Genesis 1:


26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."


27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.


So God created us to look like him but also in his likeness so like him, but man is sinful does that make God sinful.

The short answer is NO it doesn't as to why we come onto the longer answer.

MAN and WOMAN chose to sin they were perfect and like God sinless but they chose to sin and eat the fruit of knowledge when told not to they chose that sin they chose that way.

Once they eat this fruit they become spiritually dead the Bible says the first thing Adam felt was fear he felt afraid then a huge loss of security.

What is really interesting to me and I see out of life that just really confirms this is the following:

You only have to look in the newspaper and see a millionaire footballer or celebrity but you still see how there life isn't perfect they have all they want but still want more they aren't happy.

My conclusion is that material things do not make us happy you see when Adam and Eve chose to sin they made every human in the future that was to be born, come into this world spiritually dead.

For this reason we have to seek God ourself and become spiritually alive now this is a matter of opinion, I still have hard times but with God on my side I have never felt better in my whole life.

Ok so that is a bit off topic, back to your questions you could now say.

Yes Rick that's all good and well BUT if we are created in his image and likeness then we wouldn't have chose to sin in the first place we wouldn't have chosen to eat that fruit because God wouldn't of himself.

The thing is here we aren't robots he had to make us to have that choice to choose sin he has that choice but he chooses to work for the good of the world he is all loving, merciful and kind.

If we are cloned someone creates another us someone in our likeness and image but they are not us fully they will act differently and make different decisions :)

Anyway hope that answers your question and maybe you can pass that onto your friend :)

God Bless

Rick

[Rickeo]

OK. I can definitely understand how people consider prayer a way to improve their relationship with God. But, if his communication is on a spiritual level, not a physical level, why do people pray for physical things?

Hey again thanks for your questions again :) loving them all your raising such valid points.

Remember me saying ask and you shall receive the thing is nowhere in the Bible does it say we can't ask for physical things :)


Is it possible that when people win the lotto, it's not really God's doing? Is it possible that the person wins the lotto just because their number happened to be picked? When a baby is born, is it God's doing, or is it because the two parents came together to make that baby?

There is a HUGE difference between luck and God's answered prayers and just a natural act of nature.

You see people get pregnant it is the way the body is so if someone falls pregnant then it's the laws of nature but who do we have to thank for being here for nature working the way it does who created everything and the way it works God did so ultimately we have God to thank :)

However someone who is unable to have a baby like my auntie was told she could never have a baby and for years and years and years she tried and prayed to God and one day she fell pregnant and now has a son the only son she has but she wanted it so much and when she started praying ca-ching :) so praise God !!!

Winning the lottery I would say is luck but God works in mysterious ways, we are taught to pray not for selfish things so I doubt God favors individual football teams for example (but am sure if he did he would be a United fan ;) ) lol but we are taught to pray BY YOUR WILL BE DONE FATHER like I said in my other post so am sure if it's God will for you to win the lottery then yea but chance is also there :)



The only point in thanking God for these things that I can see, is if you believe that God is responsible for doing everything. God made it so that your lotto number was picked, and God made it so that those two people would meet and have a child together.

Valid point and again it is matter of opinion this I believe ultimately I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for God everyone has a book of life so therefor for me if something happens by chance or not I have God to say thank you for that :)


So, if God is responsible for everything, He obviously has a plan for us all, right? Can people's prayers really change this plan?

You've hit the nail on the head here and there are some questions I have to hold my hands up and say I don't know the answer to that and this is such a question :)

I can explain as best I can but I seem to contradict myself here so am sorry.

You are touching on the matter of fate/destiny which has been a hard one for me I believe God knows everything we are going to do before we do it so therefor everything is written down but can it be changed??

I think it can but this is my personal opinion and what I feel in my spirit more than anything :) I feel that we can change things everything isn't written down free will says it all.

If God wills it then he will do it :) I don't think the choices are God's you see I think he hasn't wrote our books for us I believe he knows what we would choose to do no matter the situation so we effectively write our books God is just all knowing he can't help knowing that. So he doesn't write it down that we should kill or be evil we choose that way if we change the decision at last minute God knows thats what we would have chosen to do.

So ultimately we write our own story BUT again I can't be sure and I will need to further my studies to answer this better so I may come back to it at a later point :)

I think there comes a time in everyones faith journey pastors and Christians vicars and priests chaplains and ministers where we have to accept we aren't all knowing and accept only God is if you believe in God you will know he is amazing no one can understand his mind and ways and some things will remain a mystery until we die :) we just have to have faith :)

Hope that helps :)

God Bless

Rick

[tf_arl_90]

I think it's cute you keep thanking me for asking questions lol. I guess I should thank you for being so eager to answer them as completely as possible. :)

I am trying my best to separate my questions from my own personal beliefs but it can be near impossible to do sometimes, so please forgive me for that.

In response to what you said to the other poster, sort of-

Why would God give Adam and Eve free will if he knew they would commit sin with it? Doesn't that in a way make him responsible for the evil that may come out of it?

I know you said to me that you believe we write our own books, but how could you even really consider it free will if God knows the outcome? He's in control, he puts the options in front of us, but he also knows which we are going to pick. So, he must be responsible for everything that happens, to a point?

[Rickeo]

I'll echo this a little -

If God created everything, and evil is part of 'everything', then God created evil. Yes?

If yes, why is evil "bad" but the Creator of evil "good" ?

Jess, though you didn't post a question more a discussion the stanza you posted I will kind of cover answer questions as a reply to this question above.

As in your last post and question tf_arl_90 this is another I struggle with and a real deep question.

Did God create evil well let me put it this way to you, you have to try and think like a none human here lol don't ask me how .......

Anyway think of it like this would goodness, joy and happiness, laughter, good etc be understood if there was not sadness, hurt, pain etc I believe to fully understand these joys we must experience sadness, pain, suffering etc.

So God created us with the option to sin it's freewill just like he created Satan he gives us free will :)

Which leads me onto your other questions:


Why would God give Adam and Eve free will if he knew they would commit sin with it? Doesn't that in a way make him responsible for the evil that may come out of it?

God created us for a relationship with him after all isn't it any parents desire to want to communicate with there kids. We have looked at relationship with God in the other post and we have looked at the creation and God creating us in his image, most people want children and God is the same.

Now if God created us like robots so he controlled everything we did when we did it etc etc would that satisfy and full fill his need for children and relationships. I don't think it would :)

So he had to give us free will to do what we choose if we chose to hurt him and sin against him that is our choice.


I know you said to me that you believe we write our own books, but how could you even really consider it free will if God knows the outcome? He's in control, he puts the options in front of us, but he also knows which we are going to pick. So, he must be responsible for everything that happens, to a point?

If your thinking on a human level yes, one thing we have to understand is we are not God no matter what faith we look at Christianity or any other we will see God is beyond words he created this universe and if we look how complex life and this universe is we will see that it can not be summed up in a few words and everything can not be understood.

As humans we want to know everything but it isn't possible some things we will only find out when we are standing face to face with God :)

Yes God know what we are going to do but he doesn't make us do it it's our OWN choice have you ever told your friend something then you have a suspicion they may tell someone else you know there going to tell someone else but who's fault is it they told someone else yours because you told them or theres? It's theres because they betrayed your trust.

It's pretty much the same with God he knows what we are going to do and he knows when we are going to make mistakes but he has to let us make them.

How would you feel if you was soooo thirsty and wanted some water a glass was in front of you but you couldn't drink it God was stopping you etc. It's free will we're not robots we do what we want.

You see we will mention the bad things such as when we make bad decisions when we "sin" and we can put the blame on God because it's easy to do in a way it makes our sin and our wrongs right to us it makes us feel better because it's like heck God knew I was gonna do that anyway :\ trust me am a Christian I do that all the time but it's not like that I chose to do that sin God couldn't help but know I was going to do it.

Like before I was a Christian I would go out with mates and get HAMMERED beyond belief my Gran never stopped me she knew what I was going to do but didn't stop me because I had to make my own mistakes. She had to let me lead my own life so I could come to learn and grow as a person and not wrap me up in cotton wool :)

See humanly thinking makes us think well if God knows what were gonna do before we do it from the moment we are born to the moment we die then our book is written there is no such thing as free will and blah blah blah but that is humanly thinking.

If someone can create the universe and something as complex and the digestive system and the human anatomy, capable of creating a solar system where everything is aligned just right for us to live on earth then surly that person is capable of doing things beyond human imagination.

See we wont be able to comprehend it as we are not God :) but hey am sure when we die we will all surly find out :)


I think it's cute you keep thanking me for asking questions lol. I guess I should thank you for being so eager to answer them as completely as possible.

:) Thanks :) I like your questions I like deep thinkers, though your not a Christian by the sounds of things I love someone who is a deep thinker and you have thought about most of the things I have thought about myself.

It is rare you get a teenager who is a real thinker most of us are to caught up in the material things of this world :) I like you so thank you for asking :)


I am trying my best to separate my questions from my own personal beliefs but it can be near impossible to do sometimes, so please forgive me for that.

That's ok, your asking me questions from a none-christian based outlook and that is fine :) if your personal beliefs make my answers seem offensive in anyway am sorry for that :) and I hope my answers haven't offended you or made you angry in anyway :)

If anyone wants to chat with me on MSN as well it's richard@themckeags.com :)

God Bless

Rick

[Rickeo]

I'll echo this a little -

If God created everything, and evil is part of 'everything', then God created evil. Yes?

If yes, why is evil "bad" but the Creator of evil "good" ?

Jess, though you didn't post a question more a discussion the stanza you posted I will kind of cover answer questions as a reply to this question above.

As in your last post and question tf_arl_90 this is another I struggle with and a real deep question.

Did God create evil well let me put it this way to you, you have to try and think like a none human here lol don't ask me how .......

Anyway think of it like this would goodness, joy and happiness, laughter, good etc be understood if there was not sadness, hurt, pain etc I believe to fully understand these joys we must experience sadness, pain, suffering etc.

So God created us with the option to sin it's freewill just like he created Satan he gives us free will :)

Which leads me onto your other questions:


Why would God give Adam and Eve free will if he knew they would commit sin with it? Doesn't that in a way make him responsible for the evil that may come out of it?

God created us for a relationship with him after all isn't it any parents desire to want to communicate with there kids. We have looked at relationship with God in the other post and we have looked at the creation and God creating us in his image, most people want children and God is the same.

Now if God created us like robots so he controlled everything we did when we did it etc etc would that satisfy and full fill his need for children and relationships. I don't think it would :)

So he had to give us free will to do what we choose if we chose to hurt him and sin against him that is our choice.


I know you said to me that you believe we write our own books, but how could you even really consider it free will if God knows the outcome? He's in control, he puts the options in front of us, but he also knows which we are going to pick. So, he must be responsible for everything that happens, to a point?

If your thinking on a human level yes, one thing we have to understand is we are not God no matter what faith we look at Christianity or any other we will see God is beyond words he created this universe and if we look how complex life and this universe is we will see that it can not be summed up in a few words and everything can not be understood.

As humans we want to know everything but it isn't possible some things we will only find out when we are standing face to face with God :)

Yes God know what we are going to do but he doesn't make us do it it's our OWN choice have you ever told your friend something then you have a suspicion they may tell someone else you know there going to tell someone else but who's fault is it they told someone else yours because you told them or theres? It's theres because they betrayed your trust.

It's pretty much the same with God he knows what we are going to do and he knows when we are going to make mistakes but he has to let us make them.

How would you feel if you was soooo thirsty and wanted some water a glass was in front of you but you couldn't drink it God was stopping you etc. It's free will we're not robots we do what we want.

You see we will mention the bad things such as when we make bad decisions when we "sin" and we can put the blame on God because it's easy to do in a way it makes our sin and our wrongs right to us it makes us feel better because it's like heck God knew I was gonna do that anyway :\ trust me am a Christian I do that all the time but it's not like that I chose to do that sin God couldn't help but know I was going to do it.

Like before I was a Christian I would go out with mates and get HAMMERED beyond belief my Gran never stopped me she knew what I was going to do but didn't stop me because I had to make my own mistakes. She had to let me lead my own life so I could come to learn and grow as a person and not wrap me up in cotton wool :)

See humanly thinking makes us think well if God knows what were gonna do before we do it from the moment we are born to the moment we die then our book is written there is no such thing as free will and blah blah blah but that is humanly thinking.

If someone can create the universe and something as complex and the digestive system and the human anatomy, capable of creating a solar system where everything is aligned just right for us to live on earth then surly that person is capable of doing things beyond human imagination.

See we wont be able to comprehend it as we are not God :) but hey am sure when we die we will all surly find out :)


I think it's cute you keep thanking me for asking questions lol. I guess I should thank you for being so eager to answer them as completely as possible.

:) Thanks :) I like your questions I like deep thinkers, though your not a Christian by the sounds of things I love someone who is a deep thinker and you have thought about most of the things I have thought about myself.

It is rare you get a teenager who is a real thinker most of us are to caught up in the material things of this world :) I like you so thank you for asking :)


I am trying my best to separate my questions from my own personal beliefs but it can be near impossible to do sometimes, so please forgive me for that.

That's ok, your asking me questions from a none-christian based outlook and that is fine :) if your personal beliefs make my answers seem offensive in anyway am sorry for that :) and I hope my answers haven't offended you or made you angry in anyway :)

If anyone wants to chat with me on MSN as well it's richard@themckeags.com :)

God Bless

Rick

[Tommeh!!!]

Eh likewise its not my bag at all, but each to their own. Good on ya for wanting to help others.

im also well impressed at how civil this has remained, hehe

[tf_arl_90]

I HAVE A POEM FOR THIS OCCASION (I seem to have one for all occasions recently :), but this is pretty famous and my favourite and I'm excited because I'm actually able to use it without people shouting at me :D)


"Tiger tiger burning bright,
in the forest of the night,
what immortal hand or eye
could frame thy fearful symmetry?"

That's the first stanza of a VERY long poem, but it is asking why God created the tiger- a natural predator which is deadly, but beautiful and bright.

Then later he asks, "did he who made the lamb make thee?". Did God, who created good, also create evil which overrides the good and goes against Jesus and his teachings of innocence (the Lamb could be said to be Jesus; the lamb is a symbol of Jesus as the sacrifice). So did the same person who created the tiger, create "the lamb"? It's almost like asking, did he who create the devil, create the angel? In a real world this is undoubtedly relevant, did he create suffering and the evil in people, as well as the good within the world?

[/William Blake Geekiness]


Just thought it was worth talking about. :(

Hey, Jess, no sad face! It's a fitting poem. Definitely relevant to the discussion. :)

...if I didn't hate poetry, I might write more lol.

[tf_arl_90]

Anyway think of it like this would goodness, joy and happiness, laughter, good etc be understood if there was not sadness, hurt, pain etc I believe to fully understand these joys we must experience sadness, pain, suffering etc.
No, I don't think they would be understood. We agree here.

I think the argument generally goes, why does the amount of suffering seem to outweigh the amount of good present in the world? And why is it distributed so unfairly? I think you already answered this earlier, though.

"God works in mysterious ways" is a common response, but doesn't really cut it for me. That being said, I'll admit I think there's plenty of good in the world, and plenty more we're unaware of. This is often overlooked.

It's impossible to measure happiness vs. sadness though. Different people are affected in different ways by different things. You can't compare totals.


So God created us with the option to sin it's freewill just like he created Satan he gives us free will :)

...

You see we will mention the bad things such as when we make bad decisions when we "sin" and we can put the blame on God because it's easy to do in a way it makes our sin and our wrongs right to us it makes us feel better because it's like heck God knew I was gonna do that anyway :\ trust me am a Christian I do that all the time but it's not like that I chose to do that sin God couldn't help but know I was going to do it.

Which brings me back to my basic question. Who is ultimately responsible for what happens?

It seems to me, at least, that people thank God for all the good things that happen in our lives. Yet, when bad things happen, those same people either blame themselves, other people, or the devil. They don't blame God (and if they do, they later reconsider).

According to believers, God gave us free will. But, free will allows us to fail and succeed. Why do we assign responsibility to different entities, when God created everything?

I think that I am in control of my own life. If I fail, it's a fault of my own. If I succeed, it's because of what I've done to get there.

But if you believe in God, then maybe everytime you thank him you are really thanking him for giving you free will? That's about as much as I can get from that lol


Yes God know what we are going to do but he doesn't make us do it it's our OWN choice have you ever told your friend something then you have a suspicion they may tell someone else you know there going to tell someone else but who's fault is it they told someone else yours because you told them or theres? It's theres because they betrayed your trust.
I think this is a pretty solid analogy. The only thing is, if I suspected my friend would share the secret, I probably wouldn't tell them. If I knew they would share the secret, I definitely wouldn't tell them. God knows, he doesn't suspect, yet he still allows for it.

This may be where we'll have to just agree to disagree, otherwise we'll be going in circles. :)


If someone can create the universe and something as complex and the digestive system and the human anatomy, capable of creating a solar system where everything is aligned just right for us to live on earth then surly that person is capable of doing things beyond human imagination.

For sure!



:) Thanks :) I like your questions I like deep thinkers, though your not a Christian by the sounds of things I love someone who is a deep thinker and you have thought about most of the things I have thought about myself.

It is rare you get a teenager who is a real thinker most of us are to caught up in the material things of this world :) I like you so thank you for asking :)

That's ok, your asking me questions from a none-christian based outlook and that is fine :) if your personal beliefs make my answers seem offensive in anyway am sorry for that :) and I hope my answers haven't offended you or made you angry in anyway :)

Not offensive in the least bit. I appreciate the sincerity in your statements.

You said earlier that we don't know everything, and I agree with you. I was raised Roman Catholic but also taught to question things. In questioning things I've grown to describe myself more as an agnostic with atheist leanings.

Some people question their faith and find that their religious beliefs are appropriate for them. I questioned my faith and gradually moved away from them. Whether I believe in God or not, my main objective is getting to learn more about myself, the way I think, and the way I reason. This is precisely why I enjoy this discussion. And I think, like me, you are also reexamining your faith. This questioning should ultimately lead both of us to a better understanding of ourselves.

To give you some insight into why I ask the questions I do, I'll briefly summarize. Right now I'm open to the possibility of God existing, because I understand that if he does exist, it's likely he exists outside of scientific explanation. I lack faith that he definitely exists, just like I lack faith that he definitely doesn't. But because I rely more on evidence than faith, I lean more towards the atheist side of things, while still considering myself an agnostic.

[Deathturtle]

Well, i like helping people, but i'm not a chrsitian, i suppose i do abide by the ten commandments but i believe that the earth has it's own life force, so i suppose i'm breaking the first commanment am i not?

Enjoins that God must be known and acknowledged to be the only true God, and our God; and, to worship him and to make him known as he has been made known to us.

I swear, therefore im breaking another commandment,
Enjoins a holy and a reverent use of God’s names, titles, attributes, ordinances, Word, and works.

So, on these basis will i be allowed past the gates of eutopia? Or am i an evil person?

[Rickeo]

I think the argument generally goes, why does the amount of suffering seem to outweigh the amount of good present in the world? And why is it distributed so unfairly? I think you already answered this earlier, though.

Yea I think I touched on it briefly the key point to remember is there is a lot of good that goes unseen bad stuff is just advertised all over the media drama entertains people sadly.


"God works in mysterious ways" is a common response, but doesn't really cut it for me. That being said, I'll admit I think there's plenty of good in the world, and plenty more we're unaware of. This is often overlooked.

Amen to that :) but I do have to say here that God really does work in mysterious ways may not cut it for you but it's the truth lol :\ from me personal experiences anyways.


Which brings me back to my basic question. Who is ultimately responsible for what happens?

I think the answer to that is us as humans we are free will and everything I explained in the post. Example of something I have been studying here, the Bible says people used to live till they were like 300+ is it possible yes scientists have proved the way the world was and the atmosphere of the earth etc animals and humans would have lived longer and longer way into there hundreds we have had people who are a 120+ in this day and age so back then 300 or 400 years old would have been possible Adam and Eve lived into there 900's. But the way we have destroyed the earth today polluted it etc etc it has damaged our health and we die a lot younger it is our fault.


It seems to me, at least, that people thank God for all the good things that happen in our lives. Yet, when bad things happen, those same people either blame themselves, other people, or the devil. They don't blame God (and if they do, they later reconsider).


I think this is a case of agree to disagree because th majority of people I have met are all to quick to blame God rather than themselves or the devil I own a Christian support community and I get it a lot why did God do this to me etc etc so I dunno I would say though that GOD can't be blamed for all the evil realistically is God just some big bully that doesn't sum up to me why God would like evil??


According to believers, God gave us free will. But, free will allows us to fail and succeed. Why do we assign responsibility to different entities, when God created everything?

We do fail yes but again it's the whole thing about being robots do you want to be a robot if God stopped you from making mistakes you wouldn't be your own person, the day man chose to sin was the day everything went down hill for us. We're not robots we have to make our own choices we choose to fail if God stopped us we wouldn't be us.


But if you believe in God, then maybe everytime you thank him you are really thanking him for giving you free will? That's about as much as I can get from that lol

To have free will is to have life again the robot thing without free will we wouldn't be us we wouldn't be able to think or do for ourselves it's almost impossible for the human mind to grasp but it's true so we should be thanking God for life and free will in essence.


I think this is a pretty solid analogy. The only thing is, if I suspected my friend would share the secret, I probably wouldn't tell them. If I knew they would share the secret, I definitely wouldn't tell them. God knows, he doesn't suspect, yet he still allows for it.

That's down to that person for me I hate to live in a world of not being able to trust people if I have something on my mind and I only have a select few friends who I feel I can tell if they break that trust it's there choice, anyway it was just an example I knew you would come up with that lol but I couldn't think of a more solid analogy.



This may be where we'll have to just agree to disagree, otherwise we'll be going in circles.

I agree lol like you said before our difference in beliefs will conflict and probably will lead us round in circles but if I give you a better idea of the Christian view on things then that's my job done I suppose ;)


And I think, like me, you are also reexamining your faith.

Hmmmm this confused me lol am 110% sure am happy with my faith and I doubt nothing :\ so am confused here lol :)


Right now I'm open to the possibility of God existing, because I understand that if he does exist, it's likely he exists outside of scientific explanation. I lack faith that he definitely exists, just like I lack faith that he definitely doesn't. But because I rely more on evidence than faith, I lean more towards the atheist side of things, while still considering myself an agnostic.

This interested me the most right here.

To start GOD can never ever be summed up by Science and if your looking for evidence hard physical proof even if you got it I think we would always want more, if God showed himself to us just like that then well what would be the point there is no faith in that what so ever.

Sometimes we have to have faith here is how I look at it:


I'd rather live day to day like there is a God and die and find out there isn't.
Then to live day to day like there is no God and die and find out there is.

See thing is do you want to risk it, some people say they don't mind going to hell but thats the most stupid thing I have ever heard eternal suffering not even the sickest of sick people who are into torture etc etc could enjoy hell it would be impossible to enjoy it or want to go there once your there you would do anything to get out for me personally I don't want to risk that and believing in God myself doesn't make me lose out on anything so it's win win for me either way lol the Christian morals are good and easy to follow so I don't see it as losing out on anything :) that's the way I look at it.

You don't need faith to believe:


24-25But Thomas, sometimes called the Twin, one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples told him, "We saw the Master." But he said, "Unless I see the nail holes in his hands, put my finger in the nail holes, and stick my hand in his side, I won't believe it."
26Eight days later, his disciples were again in the room. This time Thomas was with them. Jesus came through the locked doors, stood among them, and said, "Peace to you."
27Then he focused his attention on Thomas. "Take your finger and examine my hands. Take your hand and stick it in my side. Don't be unbelieving. Believe."
28Thomas said, "My Master! My God!"
29Jesus said, "So, you believe because you've seen with your own eyes. Even better blessings are in store for those who believe without seeing."
30-31Jesus provided far more God-revealing signs than are written down in this book. These are written down so you will believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and in the act of believing, have real and eternal life in the way he personally revealed it.


What I would say though is you said you don't have faith to believe there is nothing either well when eternity is put at risk it's a HUGE thing :\

So yea :)

Just my opinions and how other Christians will look at it.

Feel free to keep coming with the questions it's a real pleasure to be able to discuss this with you :)

Rick

[Rickeo]

Well, i like helping people, but i'm not a chrsitian, i suppose i do abide by the ten commandments but i believe that the earth has it's own life force, so i suppose i'm breaking the first commanment am i not?

If your referring to you believing in another god and not the Christian God then yes you are the first commandment is that you will have no other God's before him.



I swear, therefore im breaking another commandment,
Enjoins a holy and a reverent use of God’s names, titles, attributes, ordinances, Word, and works.

So, on these basis will i be allowed past the gates of eutopia? Or am i an evil person?

The Bible says we would be shocked of who is in Heaven because we don't know who repents before they die so I dunno where you will be when the world comes to an end or you die but the choice is ultimately yours.

Are you an evil person? Of course not God doesn't see it that way God hates the sin not the sinner we all sin you believe those things I have told a lie before so am a sinner to etc we are both sinners but God loves us it doesn't make us evil at all.

One thing I have noticed about the commandments and teachings of Christianity is the people that will say over and over again that they can't be a Christian because they can't commit to not having premarital sex to not drinking to not doing this and not doing that etc.

The thing is if we followed these simple requirements you will find we lead a betetr life me choosing not to have sex now means I don't get to emotionally attached to a girl and being hurt when it ends it means that I don't end up losing another unborn baby etc.

It's not hard to follow and it angers me a little to see people seeing Christianity as all about what it's against rather than what it is for.

People concentrate to much on we're against drinks drugs premarital sex blah blah blah when it would be nice to see people seeing what we are for such as love, peace, unity etc etc :)

The rules may seem hard to follow but there not it's made my life a lot happier and betetr now sure I struggle keeping them but we're all sinners ur not evil ur not hates the God I know is a God of love and am pretty sure my God loves you :)

God Bless

Rick

[Nintendus]

One thing I have noticed about the commandments and teachings of Christianity is the people that will say over and over again that they can't be a Christian because they can't commit to not having premarital sex to not drinking to not doing this and not doing that etc.

The thing is if we followed these simple requirements you will find we lead a betetr life me choosing not to have sex now means I don't get to emotionally attached to a girl and being hurt when it ends it means that I don't end up losing another unborn baby etc.
Where in the bible is pre-marital sex condemned? I have read numerous verses which preach against immoral sexuality, but I consider that quite a stretch to apply it to pre-marital sex.

[tf_arl_90]

I don't want to get too far into a discussion of my own personal beliefs, as that's not the topic of discussion, but I wanted to clear this up!


Hmmmm this confused me lol am 110% sure am happy with my faith and I doubt nothing :\ so am confused here lol :)

Questioning/reexamining does not necessarily mean you are changing your mind. In your case, these questions are solidifying your faith. I think as long as you are constantly asking questions instead of sitting with your fingers in your ears closed off to everything else around you, you're generally ok.

That's all I meant by that :)


See thing is do you want to risk it, some people say they don't mind going to hell but thats the most stupid thing I have ever heard eternal suffering not even the sickest of sick people who are into torture etc etc could enjoy hell it would be impossible to enjoy it or want to go there once your there you would do anything to get out for me personally I don't want to risk that and believing in God myself doesn't make me lose out on anything so it's win win for me either way lol the Christian morals are good and easy to follow so I don't see it as losing out on anything :) that's the way I look at it.

Do I want to suffer for an eternity? No, that sounds pretty horrible. I would definitely mind going to hell.

The thing is, I don't believe in hell, the same way I don't believe in God. So the whole risk thing is not even an issue. I understand what you mean, so I ask you try to understand it from my perspective too.

Think of the other religions in the world. Those practicing them all believe they've chosen the right path to a good afterlife too. Does this make you want to change your mind? Does it make you nervous that maybe you've chosen the wrong path? I'm going to guess probably not.

Well, that's how I feel about Christianity.

[tf_arl_90]

Are you an evil person? Of course not God doesn't see it that way God hates the sin not the sinner we all sin you believe those things I have told a lie before so am a sinner to etc we are both sinners but God loves us it doesn't make us evil at all.

This actually leads me to another question. Maybe it's very basic, so excuse my ignorance on the topic.

What makes a person evil?

[Rickeo]

Where in the bible is pre-marital sex condemned? I have read numerous verses which preach against immoral sexuality, but I consider that quite a stretch to apply it to pre-marital sex.

Spot on question love it :) good on you for asking :) I will attempt to point out why Christians believe this by pointing out scripture from the Old and New Testament.

Old Testament teachings:



Exodus 22:16-17
If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.

[If premarital sex occurs, then an Israelite male was to marry the woman he slept with - that is, assuming the father allowed the marriage.]



Proverbs 5:15-21
Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well. Should your springs overflow in the streets, your streams of water in the public squares? Let them be yours alone, never to be shared with strangers. May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer-- may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love. Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife? For a man's ways are in full view of the LORD, and he examines all his paths.

[A man's "fountain" should be saved for "the wife of [his] youth." The man is to be a virgin when he takes his wife.]

There are many other verses in the Old Testament many referring to virginity being cherished highly by God but I just wanted to point out a few examples.

I will now point out some of the teachings from the New Testament:


1 Corinthians 6:16-18
Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

[Sexual intimacy "unites" you with the other person. When this uniting of flesh happens outside of marriage, it is called "sexual immorality." One fleshness is to be limited to the one you marry. This is similar to what we saw in Exodus 22:16-17.]


1 Corinthians 7:1-2
Now about the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to live a celibate life. But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.

[Notice that to avoid sexual immorality outside of marriage people should marry.]


1 Corinthians 7:8-9
Now I say to those who aren't married and to widows it's better to stay unmarried, just as I am. But if they can't control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It's better to marry than to burn with lust.

[If you are struggling with wanting to have sex, get married. Premarital sex isn't an option for dealing with lust. It's either marriage or you are in sexual sin.]


Ephesians 5:31

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."

[Paul is quoting from Genesis 2:24 and affirming the Old Testament standard of uniting in flesh only with your spouse. One fleshness is to happen when a man leaves his father and mother and is "united to his wife." Compare with 1 Corinthians 6:16-18.]


1 Thessalonians 4:2-8
For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to acquire a wife in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this manner no one should cheat his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

["Acquire a wife in a way that is holy and honorable" or you are in sexual immorality. Sexual sin harms others besides those who engage in it. In adultery, the spouse is always wronged. Premarital sex "cheats" the future partner by robbing him or her of the virginity that ought to be brought to marriage.]


Hebrews 13:4
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

[Again, it's a pure marriage bed or you are an "adulterer" or "sexually immoral."]


1 Timothy 5:2
Treat older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.

[As a Christian man, if you are not married to her, then she is your sister (who you must treat "with absolute purity").]

There are many other verses I think that last one sums it up, so though the Bible doesn't say thou shalt not have premarital sex, when we study the Bible we see that sexual immorality/premarital sex is wrong.

Coming from a personal level here, as a guy who isn't a virgin I had a HUUUGGGGEEEE problem with this I was like, "God I know am going to marry this girl so surly it is ok, right??" and I knew the answer if I was going to marry this girl then why couldn't I just wait.

God challenged me and he said to me if my relationship can't live/survive without sex then how is it going to survive with sex??

You see you may laugh at this or think am stupid but to sum it up I would say to any none Christian give it a try for 3 months stop having sex, that's true love to me arguing with me would only suggest what I felt God saying to me about if my relationship couldn't survive without sex, basing a relationship on sex wont help.

You see many people say but I don't base my relationship on sex and that's cool stop for 3 months then shouldn't be a huge issue.

See I know when am married I can look at my wife and say I love you so so much and I am glad I waited for you, I wont have any regrets in waiting and well I will be proud to say I waited for my wife rather than slept with a number of girls.

Just how us Christians look at things :)

Hope that answers your question :)

Rick

[Rickeo]

Questioning/reexamining does not necessarily mean you are changing your mind. In your case, these questions are solidifying your faith. I think as long as you are constantly asking questions instead of sitting with your fingers in your ears closed off to everything else around you, you're generally ok.

That's all I meant by that

Ahhh spot on lol sorry I didn't mean to offend you was just a little confused how you meant this lol :)



Do I want to suffer for an eternity? No, that sounds pretty horrible. I would definitely mind going to hell.

You know I like you, you have a real smart head on your shoulders and your reasonable and sensible :) I have heard so many people say they wouldn't mind going to hell but what you said about not wanting to go to hell is pretty smart because of course hell can never be enjoyable :)



The thing is, I don't believe in hell, the same way I don't believe in God. So the whole risk thing is not even an issue. I understand what you mean, so I ask you try to understand it from my perspective too.

No, no I do understand where your coming from and if your 110% sure you don't believe in hell that's fine am not here to change your mind just to answer questions and show you a Christians view of things, but for someone who doesn't believe in hell what I said would be very hard to comprehend so I do see where your coming from am just saying that me personally well I wouldn't ever want to risk it where eternity lies at risk for me it's win win lol :)

But yea am not a Christian because of the whole fear of Hell thing anyway lol to many Christians are Bible thumpers telling people to stop from sin or there going to hell blah blah blah everyone knows what the Bible says they don't need it force feeding down there throat, I'm a Christian because of my own study which everything I have researched just leads me to believe Christianity is true so for me it's not about the fear of hell its about the prospective of Heaven.


Think of the other religions in the world. Those practicing them all believe they've chosen the right path to a good afterlife too. Does this make you want to change your mind? Does it make you nervous that maybe you've chosen the wrong path? I'm going to guess probably not.

I agree, everyone from every other religion is sure they have chosen the right path, but throw any other religion at me and I can pretty much tell you why it's wrong in my opinion.

See I think any reasonable intelligent person can understand this way of thinking:

For any religion to be a religion and explain creation and God it has to have been around FOREVER.

Islam for example started 300 years after Christ, Wicca comes from ancient Pagan beliefs Paganism modern day does not date back to the beginning of time ancient Pagans did things way differently, Jehovah wittinesses haven't been around forever most religions haven't even satanism comes from the Bible weird how Christianity only speaks of satan yet satanists don't believe in Christian God or Jesus or look at him as bad where they get this from is daft as the Bible has always taught Satan is bad and concluding the Bible is lieing well there is no evidence of that what so ever.

See for me why my mind can't be changed is a religion would have had to been around forever because if it hadn't it can't possibly explain creating well not to me anyway it wouldn't be satisfactory enough see before Christians there were Jews.

If I was to come up with a religion now and say a flying cow took me to Heaven and I had spoke to God and creation came about this way would you believe me?

If I am wrong then I risk some form of punishment am not sure what Islam speaks of for none believers but am sure it's not good but that's what I risk I can only say what I feel in my heart and spirit.

You see most people in Islam are born into it believing and following it so they don't get a choice to them it's almost like there brainwashes and programmed to believe in that.

Where I didn't have Christianity forced down my neck :) I chose this way after study and research both Historical and Scientific research confirmed to me that Christianity seemed to be the most likely religion that was real/worth believing in.

But no I do understand where your coming from and am only human no one knows 110% so I risk being wrong but either way it's what I feel heart and soul and my religion preaches nothing but love, peace and unity and for me thats top and am happy with that :)


What makes a person evil?

This is a really hard one and honestly I don't know, see I would do some research but am going to Alton Towers in a few hours for something called the Ultimate Event so theme park all day Christian concert at night but when I get back am gonna do some research and maybe come back to this.

But for now in brief I honestly do not know, to say no one is evil I think I would be wrong see there was a guy in the Bible called Esau and he was real bad and did just about everything he was told not to do in the Bible and the Bible does say that God hated him and for God to hate I've only found that once in the Bible where he hates and individual see God hates the sin not the sinner but this guy the Bible suggest was pure evil.

So am not sure in short but I would say people can be pure evil but what defines that in my personal opinion I would say it's someone who murders, rapes etc etc and does not repent whether that be personal repentance and feeling bad for what he/she has done or repentance towards God if a person is not sorry for the wrongs they have done when they are as big as that then I would say that person has to be evil, how can you murder and not feel bad??

That's just my personal opinion though :)

Hope those answers help for now :)

Will check this post when I get back later tonight :)

God Bless

Rick

[Nintendus]

Spot on question love it :) good on you for asking :) I will attempt to point out why Christians believe this by pointing out scripture from the Old and New Testament.

Thanks for the answer :). I'm still curious however. It is clear that the old testament teachings suggest that it is wrong; however, if you look at how people like Abraham seem to treat women in the old testament, you can't help but conclude that it is pretty foul. When you look further into it, it's almost as if God is suggesting that this old culture is incorrect. Certainly I am sure you do not believe Christianity teaches that we should behave to our women like that. Therefore I'm often a great deal more apt to accept what is taught in the new testament as being what Christians should follow. I am sure you will have noticed that the first of those quotes from the old testament seems to define a tradition, which fits in with what I have said earlier.

I do not mean to undermine any authority of the old testament, I merely suggest that I would not accept its teachings without looking deeply into the context. With those new testament quotes I still fail to see any which really suggest that pre-marital sex is wrong - although I'll gladly be contradicted if I am wrong. They all seem rather vague, and at the most I can see that they say adultery and 'sleeping around' - as it were - are wrong.

[tf_arl_90]

But yea am not a Christian because of the whole fear of Hell thing anyway lol to many Christians are Bible thumpers telling people to stop from sin or there going to hell blah blah blah everyone knows what the Bible says they don't need it force feeding down there throat, I'm a Christian because of my own study which everything I have researched just leads me to believe Christianity is true so for me it's not about the fear of hell its about the prospective of Heaven.

How do you feel about those people who claim to have faith in God, simply because they are afraid of going to hell?

If this is too personal, off topic, or whatever else, please let me know, I won't be offended. :)


For any religion to be a religion and explain creation and God it has to have been around FOREVER.Hm, well, Judaism is older than Christianity. What makes you a Christian rather than a Jew then? And there are plenty of polytheistic religions that were around way before Judaism and Christianity, is it just because they have faded out that this condition does not apply?


So am not sure in short but I would say people can be pure evil but what defines that in my personal opinion I would say it's someone who murders, rapes etc etc and does not repent whether that be personal repentance and feeling bad for what he/she has done or repentance towards God if a person is not sorry for the wrongs they have done when they are as big as that then I would say that person has to be evil, how can you murder and not feel bad??Thanks. I had a feeling maybe it had something to do with not repenting about a sin, but wasn't sure which sins they were. If you happen find any answers outside of your own personal opinion, I'd be interested in that too.

So does God love all people except those who murder and rape? Does this include people who aren't aware that what they're doing is wrong? For example, in some cases - the insane, or mentally retarded, or children? How about those who execute murderers, or execute innocent people wrongly convicted of murder (capital punishment)? Those who kill enemies in war? Those who kill in self-defense? I suppose God will judge them when they go before him, but are they, by your definition, evil?

[Nintendus]

Okay Hooligan,

Stop trolling otherwise you will receive an infraction which would lead to a ban if you keep this up.
I'm sorry, am I missing something? Shouldn't he be banned for being too old?

[-Michael-]

I read some posts wrong lol.

Nevermind haha.

[Rickeo]

I do not mean to undermine any authority of the old testament, I merely suggest that I would not accept its teachings without looking deeply into the context. With those new testament quotes I still fail to see any which really suggest that pre-marital sex is wrong - although I'll gladly be contradicted if I am wrong. They all seem rather vague, and at the most I can see that they say adultery and 'sleeping around' - as it were - are wrong.

Old Testament teachings are still as relevant today as they were all that time ago the teachings that have changed such as an eye for an eye Jesus stated he never said the whole of the old Testament was out now it is still God's wishes we save sex for marriage.

Also the New Testament doesn't touch on it so much like you have said which is fair enough and all I can suggest is ask your Christian friend that is having sex if they feel bad about it I would be surprised if they said they feel no guilt at all, that to me is God I know it's wrong.

Ultimately it affects no one else's salvation if you believe in God and accept him as Lord and savior and acknowledge Jesus came to die for your sins etc you are saved however we should follow what the Bible say regardless of what Testament it is in and the Old Testament says it clearer then daylight.

The New Testament says it as well Adultery that Jesus speaks of is not the adultery they talk about in the English Dictionary or what you can get done for in a court of law it is a sin against any form of sexual impurity if you read and study the Bible and history of it you will see that it suggest adultery also includes sleeping with people before marriage :)

I don't see it as a big thing to not sleep with someone till your married personally do you??

That's the best answer I can give here I'm afraid :)


I'm sorry, am I missing something? Shouldn't he be banned for being too old?

He should indeed and he still hasn't been strange if you ask me :)

God Bless

Rick

[Rickeo]

How do you feel about those people who claim to have faith in God, simply because they are afraid of going to hell?

Great question, I think great we should all fear going to Hell I was speaking with my girlfriend about this just last night.

Life is short. Hell is for eternity and way to hot.

However I think it would be impossible for someone just to be a Christian because there scared of Hell here is why I think that:

1) If they are not a Christian chances are they wont believe in Hell anyway so why be afraid of something you don't believe in??

2) If they believe in God and Hell then they will know God is good and loving and they will never have to go to Hell so it's all good :)

What I meant in my previous post was many people became Christians from being scared and told about Hell so they didn't want to take the chance of it existing or not so they became a Christian because part of them believed in God and Hell and didn't want to take that chance but lived and feared Hell so much where for me it's not like that and it shouldn't be for any Christian, if someone has become a Christian through the fear of Hell good because it's not gonna be nice for anyone but don't continue to be afraid now focus on Heaven the good the overwhelming feeling of Heaven not hell :)


Hm, well, Judaism is older than Christianity. What makes you a Christian rather than a Jew then? And there are plenty of polytheistic religions that were around way before Judaism and Christianity, is it just because they have faded out that this condition does not apply?

Christians are Jews in a sense but we have to define ourselves from Jewish people who believe Jesus was just a great teacher and not the son of God so we call ourselves Christians simply meaning a follower of Christ since Jews still said they were waiting for there Messiah we had to show people the difference in our believes so we're not Jewish like you would know a Jew and there beliefes and teachings we follow both the Old Testament and the New Testament :)

Also the Old Testament speaks of such religions but see how they were started the longest one dating back as far as we can see is that, that stems from Christianity don't believe me?? Show me evidence to prove me wrong :) So my point is still solid :)


So does God love all people except those who murder and rape? Does this include people who aren't aware that what they're doing is wrong? For example, in some cases - the insane, or mentally retarded, or children? How about those who execute murderers, or execute innocent people wrongly convicted of murder (capital punishment)? Those who kill enemies in war? Those who kill in self-defense? I suppose God will judge them when they go before him, but are they, by your definition, evil?

No those who murder and rape etc if they come to God and are TRULY REPENTANT then he accepts and loves them to, this is hard for people to grasp but let me explain the difference between REPENTANCE and TRUE REPENTANCE:

REPENTANCE:

To say sorry for your wrongs but not truly mean it.

TRUE REPENTANCE:

To say your sorry for what you have done and mean it heart body mind and soul.

Now think about it if someone were truly sorry which no one human would believe they were because we live in a society of "A leppord never changes it's spots" & "If they were sorry they wouldn't have done it in the first place" but if they were truly sorry the pain of what they had done would affect them every day of there lives they would be heartbroken and you can't hide those true feelings from God, God knows when someone is truly sorry or not so no one gets away with anything :) I think if someone was TRULY REPENTANT then living with that sorrow of what they have done will be a bad enough punishment alone :) and I can say this as my Grandad was murdered and I can honestly say I do not hate his murderer and would happily take him in/help him if needed I don't hate :)

Capital Punishment is wrong it is murder it is a sin but again wont stop anyone from getting into Heaven if they are truly repentant for what they have done :)

If there not or aren't a Christian then ultimately when push comes to shove they choose death, the death penalty is murder. Only that person who gives us life should be able to take it away in my opinion :)

If you want scripture to back all that up let me know :)

God Bless

Rick

[lipgloss]

Okay, I've got a question for Rickeo!!
It's about pre-marrital sex, if you don't mind. (not that I'm for it or against it. just purely curious...heh heh)
Okay, so the first commandment that God gave to humans happens to be "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth," (Gen 1:28)
Adam and Eve weren't married....
And of course there are a lot of scriptures throughout the Old Testiment concerning this topic,...but in Mat. 22:37-40 it says
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So, I was just wondering if that meant it covered the old laws in the old testiment. Like, if we were to love God with all our hearts, and our neighbor as ourselves, (obey those two commandments ) then we wouldn't really...umm try to break any of the ten commandments. Right? So, if it was done in love, then I don't think God would be so pissed with pre-marrital sex. I don't mean I'm all for ... unwise, sex or anything. lol! Just wondering. And absolutely no offense, just incase!

[tf_arl_90]

1) If they are not a Christian chances are they wont believe in Hell anyway so why be afraid of something you don't believe in??
You're right. I think I was mostly talking about people who are unsure about the possibility of an afterlife, and pursue Christianity as a "just in case" measure. Their belief in God may be unsteady or weakening - they've tried to have faith in God, but are failing. In this sense, they're not Christian (I guess?), so what you're saying makes sense.


2) If they believe in God and Hell then they will know God is good and loving and they will never have to go to Hell so it's all good :)
If all Christians who don't commit murder or rape (without repenting) are going to heaven anyway, why bother following all the other Christian principles, especially if they disagree with them?

For example, if you commit adultery and are not sorry for it...you're still going to heaven?


where for me it's not like that and it shouldn't be for any Christian,

if someone has become a Christian through the fear of Hell good
Am I just reading this wrong? Are you saying any path to believing in God is good, but some paths are better than others? Is it good or bad to simply become a Christian through the fear of Hell?


Christians are Jews in a sense but we have to define ourselves from Jewish people
But that's essentially what I'm getting at. Christianity has been around for a long time, which by your previous statements makes it a credible belief system. I understand this logic. But Judaism has been around for longer, so why are the newer Christian beliefs more credible, if they conflict with older Jewish beliefs? As similar as the two religions are, there are distinct differences.


Also the Old Testament speaks of such religions but see how they were started the longest one dating back as far as we can see is that, that stems from Christianity don't believe me?? Show me evidence to prove me wrong :) So my point is still solid :)
Ok. :) I'm not really interested in refuting your points or trying to change your beliefs. I'm just curious and trying to get a better understanding lol


Now think about it if someone were truly sorry which no one human would believe they were because we live in a society of "A leppord never changes it's spots" & "If they were sorry they wouldn't have done it in the first place" but if they were truly sorry the pain of what they had done would affect them every day of there lives they would be heartbroken and you can't hide those true feelings from God, God knows when someone is truly sorry or not so no one gets away with anything :) I think if someone was TRULY REPENTANT then living with that sorrow of what they have done will be a bad enough punishment alone :) and I can say this as my Grandad was murdered and I can honestly say I do not hate his murderer and would happily take him in/help him if needed I don't hate :)
First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather.

I'm actually not surprised you have this outlook. Those are the same religious principles I was brought up on. The "A leopard never changes it's spots" idea you mentioned is definitely present in today's society, even among many Christians. They are usually not nearly as well informed or dedicated to their faith as you seem to be. Yet it still throws me for a loop because it does not line up with Jesus' teachings at all, and those are the ones they claim to be following!

Your view on capital punishment is also more or less what I was expecting. I'm totally at a loss for how so many Christians believe it is acceptable.

Thanks for the responses.

[StripesNGoggles]

How come you want to be a youth pastor?

And what do they do again?

[tf_arl_90]

What is your take on certain parts of Leviticus being followed strictly and others being ignored by many Christians?

Should the Bible be followed strictly or does it serve as more of a guide?

[Rickeo]

Hi guys and gals am really sorry I haven't been replying I have been developing my new site Christian-Hangout which is a Christian version of MySpace but none Christians are also welcome if they have questions etc anyone is welcome really.

Anyway I just got it off the ground so am back to answer questions as normal, and just as normal am going to start by answering the first question from where I first left off, giving each question an answer in a post of it's own :)

Just going for a quick shower and I shall start answering as normal once again :)

Much love and am glad to be back once again chatting with such amazing people, it's a great honor to answer questions you all have and for my answers to be respected so thanks everyone :)

Much love

Rick

[Rickeo]

Okay, I've got a question for Rickeo!!
It's about pre-marrital sex, if you don't mind. (not that I'm for it or against it. just purely curious...heh heh)
Okay, so the first commandment that God gave to humans happens to be "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth," (Gen 1:28)
Adam and Eve weren't married....
And of course there are a lot of scriptures throughout the Old Testiment concerning this topic,...but in Mat. 22:34-40 it says
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Good question ok first of all in Gods eyes Adam and Eve were married things were different back then marriage was not needed, it was only later on that marriage became a thing that needed to be done.

Plus when they were making love in the Garden of Eden they were in Gods presence God blessed them and in Gods eyes they were married if we look at history we will see how times have changed and how marriage became a very important thing to do.

Today a wedding is a huge legal thing however in those days it was to simply stand up in front of your brother and sisters and say I love this person I commit my life to them we are forever.

Today it's so much different but in Gods eyes they were married :)

Also by the last statement we are not to break Gods laws to love thy neighbor and the sexual kind of love is totally different than other kinds of love. :)


So, I was just wondering if that meant it covered the old laws in the old testiment. Like, if we were to love God with all our hearts, and our neighbor as ourselves, (obey those two commandments ) then we wouldn't really...umm try to break any of the ten commandments. Right? So, if it was done in love, then I don't think God would be so pissed with pre-marrital sex. I don't mean I'm all for ... unwise, sex or anything. lol! Just wondering. And absolutely no offense, just incase!

Strange thing here is how many people of us think we are in love even say we know we are in love yet again and again we are wrong.

Some of my favorite song lyrics are by third day:

First verse:


I've heard it said that a man would climb a mountain
Just to be with the one he loves
How many times has he broken that promise
It has never been done.
I've never climbed the highest mountain
But I walked the hill of calvary

That really speaks to me we can say we are in love so so much that we would do anything for that person yet we wont, or we are wrong.

See God isn't anti sex he wants us to enjoy sex but within marriage I mean if anything he is just being a good Dad looking out for us making sure he we don't get hurt after all if you love someone that much slept with them got closer with them and they split with you how hurt would you be??

You know that song baby we aint nothing but mammals so let's do it like they do on the discovery channel.

Think about that look how society has come to see such an intimate thing, souls joining together two bodies becoming one in love and yet society have the attitude of if no one is getting hurt and if there is a mutual understanding it's all good, but is it? Really?

See I respect my girlfriend so much I only want her to have my body and the thought of her in past present or future having sex with someone else is a horrible feeling and would kill me inside she is worth so much more than that, and so is every girl and guy out there to give yourself to your one true love and wait till your 110% that they are your true love is a very special thing and how can you be close to 110% sure only when your married because we always think we know best yet us humans have been wrong so many times before yet we still don't learn.

My main point is God aint a bad guy he wants us to enjoy sex, oral sex any kind of sex he doesn't mind as long as it's within marriage because like any good dad it hurts him to see us getting hurt and believe me he has seen it for centuries.

God Bless

Rick

[Rickeo]

If all Christians who don't commit murder or rape (without repenting) are going to heaven anyway, why bother following all the other Christian principles, especially if they disagree with them?

For example, if you commit adultery and are not sorry for it...you're still going to heaven?

In short yes in long no let me explain.

Yes because they will feel that wrath of God they will be judged just like everyone else so they do have a taste of punishment if you like :)

No because if someone is saying they believe in God yet don't follow the Bible and Gods laws are they a true Christian it's ok to say you believe but they have to step out in faith, am not judging anyone or saying there not a Christian because I can't do that I can't say who will go to Hell or Heaven but ultimately God knows there heart inside out h knows the true believers so they have nothing to prove to me it's to God they have to show. And God gives us clear guidelines with this plain and simply we can either choose to follow them and live a life for him or not, but if we don't and say we still believe are we any better than none Christians in Gods eyes what are we doing that none Christians are not??


Am I just reading this wrong? Are you saying any path to believing in God is good, but some paths are better than others? Is it good or bad to simply become a Christian through the fear of Hell?

Wrong, am saying people focus on Hell to much but either way if they come to Christianity through the fear of Hell it's better for them to come to it somehow than not at all.


But that's essentially what I'm getting at. Christianity has been around for a long time, which by your previous statements makes it a credible belief system. I understand this logic. But Judaism has been around for longer, so why are the newer Christian beliefs more credible, if they conflict with older Jewish beliefs? As similar as the two religions are, there are distinct differences.


BRILLIANT question!!!!!

Well Christianity goes on from Judaism your question as to why our practices and belief system makes it more credible than there's is simple.

They don't believe in Jesus as the son of God just a great teacher even though the historical evidence shows all there scriptures prophecies had been met with Jesus.

Plus the beliefs of the new testament don't conflict with the old or vis versa Jesus came and simply said those are not the ways to live anymore.

Let me give an example Jews used to do animal sacrifices for God, to put there sins right with him however when Jesus came and died on the cross it was the biggest sacrifice of all he died for everyones sins so you see there was no need for sacrifices anymore.

There are several other things like this, the old and new testament don't conflict it's like the old way of living and the new way :) at one time it was right but now it's pointless :)


Your view on capital punishment is also more or less what I was expecting. I'm totally at a loss for how so many Christians believe it is acceptable.

Me to many of them seem to justify it with Old Testament teachings which as above New Testament rules out Jesus Christ himself rules out and says that's no longer the right way of doing things anymore.

I suppose anyone can pull out any Bible verse and take it out of context though to support what ever they are saying society do that a lot but it's about letting the Holy Spirit move you and not just reading the Bible as a book :)

Rick

[Rickeo]

How come you want to be a youth pastor?

Ok well I want to do it plane and simply because I love people, I love everyone I feel through my life and personal experiences God has called me to do this job, I love offering people spiritual support in times of need as I see what a great comfort it can bring not only to Christians but to none Christians as well.


And what do they do again?

A Youth Pastor is basically similar to a Vicar without the robes and stuff we can have wives as well ;) and we mainly work with young people age 0-25 and a little up :)

Hope that answers your question :)

Rick

[Nintendus]

Hey Rick, good to see you back :).

Old Testament teachings are still as relevant today as they were all that time ago the teachings that have changed such as an eye for an eye Jesus stated he never said the whole of the old Testament was out now it is still God's wishes we save sex for marriage.

Also the New Testament doesn't touch on it so much like you have said which is fair enough and all I can suggest is ask your Christian friend that is having sex if they feel bad about it I would be surprised if they said they feel no guilt at all, that to me is God I know it's wrong.

Ultimately it affects no one else's salvation if you believe in God and accept him as Lord and savior and acknowledge Jesus came to die for your sins etc you are saved however we should follow what the Bible say regardless of what Testament it is in and the Old Testament says it clearer then daylight.

The New Testament says it as well Adultery that Jesus speaks of is not the adultery they talk about in the English Dictionary or what you can get done for in a court of law it is a sin against any form of sexual impurity if you read and study the Bible and history of it you will see that it suggest adultery also includes sleeping with people before marriage :)

I don't see it as a big thing to not sleep with someone till your married personally do you??

That's the best answer I can give here I'm afraid :)

Thanks for the answer. Personally I do not see it as a huge deal no. I just don't see the bible outrightly condemn it beyond the old testament. And I thought the whole idea was that Jesus removed the laws of the old testament and formed a new covenant (stop me if I'm wrong). And hence while the old testament is important, it's laws are for a different society at a different time and not for us to follow explicitly. Ultimately it is Jesus' example we follow isn't it?

It might just be because the Enlgish terms used in the new testiment are a corruption of the original language and hence meaning, in which case I'll go and take a look and see if that is the case. Because certainly that can happen a lot.



He should indeed and he still hasn't been strange if you ask me :)

It makes me feel quite uncomfortable if I'm honest, I still don't understand why he is still here :P.




As another question. Probably has an easy answer I haven't heard but it's easily my number one problem with Christianity. Why does a God who is supposedly omnipotent exercise his omnipotence at one point in time only to then seemingly dissapear? Not to say He has no involvement today, but clearly it is not as direct as it was in the Old or New Testament.

And just another one because it's interesting to hear the answers :). What's your take on evolution? Do you think theistic evolution contradicts scripture? As it's very hard to fit the Adam and Eve story in there as factual accounts in such a case.

Looking forward to your answers :).

[StripesNGoggles]

Ok well I want to do it plane and simply because I love people, I love everyone I feel through my life and personal experiences God has called me to do this job, I love offering people spiritual support in times of need as I see what a great comfort it can bring not only to Christians but to none Christians as well.






A Youth Pastor is basically similar to a Vicar without the robes and stuff we can have wives as well ;) and we mainly work with young people age 0-25 and a little up :)




Hope that answers your question :)




Rick






People who volunteer at the homeless shelter make people happy all the time.
They also ask nothing in return for it.
It's just like church, except all the claims with no information to back it up.

[tf_arl_90]

Plus when they were making love in the Garden of Eden they were in Gods presence God blessed them and in Gods eyes they were married if we look at history we will see how times have changed and how marriage became a very important thing to do.

Just going off the Adam and Eve thing (maybe you've addressed this already, sorry if you have!) -

Wouldn't incest have had to have happened at some point? Yet incest is condemned in the Bible...

[tf_arl_90]

In short yes in long no let me explain.

Yes because they will feel that wrath of God they will be judged just like everyone else so they do have a taste of punishment if you like :)

No because if someone is saying they believe in God yet don't follow the Bible and Gods laws are they a true Christian it's ok to say you believe but they have to step out in faith, am not judging anyone or saying there not a Christian because I can't do that I can't say who will go to Hell or Heaven but ultimately God knows there heart inside out h knows the true believers so they have nothing to prove to me it's to God they have to show. And God gives us clear guidelines with this plain and simply we can either choose to follow them and live a life for him or not, but if we don't and say we still believe are we any better than none Christians in Gods eyes what are we doing that none Christians are not??

I always thought the number one way to get to heaven was to accept Jesus Christ as your savior and repent for your sins. I thought that's all there was to it. Am I correct?

[Rickeo]

Should the Bible be followed strictly or does it serve as more of a guide?

There is so much in the Bible that is took to literally. For example.


Mark 9:47

If your eye causes you to lose your faith, tear it out! It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell.

Did Jesus mean literally rip your eye out no he didn't he was basically saying get rid of those things causing you to sin out of your life.

If your looking at girls in a disrespectful way simply stop doing it it's better to not do it then to not enter the Kingdom of God if your watching porn simply STOP doing it, if your stealing STOP doing it, if your having sex before marriage stop doing it.

The rule is to get rid of the things that tempt you for example don't be alone with a girl on your own etc etc etc :)

If we take the Bible to literally it can be very dangerous instead we need to take some time out and pray that the Holy Spirit moves us when reading the word of God and thus let God tell us the meaning of his word in our heart mind and soul.

God Bless

Rick

[Rickeo]

Hey Rick, good to see you back

Thanks man, that made me feel pretty good having such a nice warm welcome back :) so thanks :)


Thanks for the answer. Personally I do not see it as a huge deal no. I just don't see the bible outrightly condemn it beyond the old testament. And I thought the whole idea was that Jesus removed the laws of the old testament and formed a new covenant (stop me if I'm wrong).

Ok after you discussed this with me I went on to study it some more :) and I have found something else which answers this question straight up but I will say for now is that yes Jesus came and dismissed some of the Old Teachings BUT not all the Old Testament is still relevant today and important and we should still follow all the teachings that are relevant :)


And hence while the old testament is important, it's laws are for a different society at a different time and not for us to follow explicitly. Ultimately it is Jesus' example we follow isn't it?

Sure is my friend but the Bible says YESTERDAY TODAY AND FOREVER YOU ARE THE SAME YOU NEVER CHANGE it's in a song as well God is the same yesterday today and forever he WILL NEVER CHANGE :) so yes the laws at that time were for a different society and religion is constantly changing to fit in with society but there are valued old teachings in the old testament that are vital that we still follow.

So no worshiping idols and other stuff etc etc :)

Ok now to tell you where in the New Testament it clearly says sex outside of marriage is wrong and I will also add some of my own opinion if you don't mind :)


Matthew 15:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=15&verse=16&version=65&context=verse)
Jesus replied, "You, too? Are you being willfully stupid? Don't you know that anything that is swallowed works its way through the intestines and is finally defecated? But what comes out of the mouth gets its start in the heart. It's from the heart that we vomit up evil arguments, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, lies, and cussing. That's what pollutes. Eating or not eating certain foods, washing or not washing your hands—that's neither here nor there."




Revelation 17:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=17&verse=3&version=65&context=verse)
In the Spirit he carried me out in the desert. I saw a woman mounted on a Scarlet Beast. Stuffed with blasphemies, the Beast had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, festooned with gold and gems and pearls. She held a gold chalice in her hand, brimming with defiling obscenities, her foul fornications. A riddle-name was branded on her forehead: great babylon, mother of whores and abominations of the earth. I could see that the woman was drunk, drunk on the blood of God's holy people, drunk on the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.



Ezekiel 23:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=33&chapter=23&verse=11&version=65&context=verse)
"Her sister Oholibah saw all this, but she became even worse than her sister in lust and whoring, if you can believe it. She also went crazy with lust for Assyrians: ambassadors and governors, military men smartly dressed and mounted on fine horses—the Assyrian elite. And I saw that she also had become incredibly filthy. Both women followed the same path. But Oholibah surpassed her sister. When she saw figures of Babylonians carved in relief on the walls and painted red, fancy belts around their waists, elaborate turbans on their heads, all of them looking important—famous Babylonians!—she went wild with lust and sent invitations to them in Babylon. The Babylonians came on the run, fornicated with her, made her dirty inside and out. When they had thoroughly debased her, she lost interest in them. Then she went public with her fornication. She exhibited her sex to the world.

Ok so what is fornication the definition is clear even when you look at the Biblical and historical translation of the word it is clear what it means sex outside of marriage search it anywhere even the URBAN DICTIONARY sums it up as this :)

Several times over and over in the New Testament it speaks of it even Paul speaks against it sexual fornication is not allowed.

Now for my personal input honestly it angers me people would do this when I got my gf pregnant and we split up because her Dad and Mum didn't want her with me she told me before that she was going to abort the baby and that broke my heart.

I used to be like everyone else and no am not trying to make myself sound better than anyone or make anyone a Christian am simply trying to give you an idea as to why it's good to keep sex for marriage.

I mean there would be less abortions, people are angry saying us Christians call others murderers etc etc well in all honesty we wouldn't need to because abortion would be cut by almost 75% or more if young people could keep there pants up sexual disease would also be reduced by a HUGE percentage am not calling anyone anything and I would never judge anyone I don't have the right but it breaks my heart to know the depression mothers can go through after an abortion or getting a sexual illness it breaks my heart and all am saying is God isn't anti sex he just cares about us and wants us to be safe.

:)


It makes me feel quite uncomfortable if I'm honest, I still don't understand why he is still here.

Yup strange thing is he seems to be doing a lot of trolling as well :( shame.....


As another question. Probably has an easy answer I haven't heard but it's easily my number one problem with Christianity. Why does a God who is supposedly omnipotent exercise his omnipotence at one point in time only to then seemingly dissapear? Not to say He has no involvement today, but clearly it is not as direct as it was in the Old or New Testament.

Ok God, as God not as Son or Spirit but God as God can not appear to us and show us his face as we would die the Bible says that, ever loved someone they split with you and you have a pain deep within your tummy that is just a small ounce of the love God feels for us imagine that feeling of loved times an infinite amount and there is a SMALL idea of how much God loves us and that feeling in his presence would kill us dead lol literally thats why he appeared to Moses in a burning bush.

Also God never leaves anyone read the poem footprints through the hard times he is carrying us and we usually only see that when we have come through the hard times for some of us may be longer but for me through the hard times God has pulled me through.

Now let's look at Jesus if people were to see God through something else like he sent Jesus we would still reject him we would still disobey him in fact I was talking to my gf and she agreed that take away the death and the feeling of dieing if we was in God's presence and still had free will and wasn't pure of hat people would still reject and rebel against him because it's human nature we just like to do what we want, to many people say one life live it or it's my life I will do what I want etc etc we have become just to selfish and caught up in human rights.

God did come to earth all prophecies were fulfilled LUKE who wrote the book of Luke was a doctor research him he studied the history of Jesus interviewed people he wasn't a disciple he was a highly educated man if people followed the Old Testament and researched Jesus claims of being the son of God they would see following the historical evidence and Jesus family they would see prophecies had been fulfilled and Jesus was God yet still God in there presence they crucified and killed him :)

So it would make it almost pointless for God to show him the ways he did today because it didn't work then it's not going to work now he knows best, however trust me he does show himself through miracles and other works he does.


What's your take on evolution? Do you think theistic evolution contradicts scripture? As it's very hard to fit the Adam and Eve story in there as factual accounts in such a case.

Honestly??

It's a load of rubbish it aint happening today and never has happened and it doesn't just stop, animals adapting to environmental situations to enable them to live as time changes YES evolution no an animal completely changes as a whole into something else over time and becomes more educated nonsense.

Not only do Christians think this there are scientists out there who say it's rubbish and could never have happened to.

Plus if it was right we all come from fish, and microbes in the water that sounds a load of poop to me lol :)

It's just an easy way out of expanding our minds and coming to a sensible conclusion :)

Just my opinions :)

God Bless

Rick

[Rickeo]

People who volunteer at the homeless shelter make people happy all the time.
They also ask nothing in return for it.

What am I asking in return for helping people on there spiritual journey?? Nothin :) also I can help the homeless and be a Youth Pastor it is something I hope to do in the future :)


It's just like church, except all the claims with no information to back it up

Don't get your point here :)

[tf_arl_90]

If we take the Bible to literally it can be very dangerous instead we need to take some time out and pray that the Holy Spirit moves us when reading the word of God and thus let God tell us the meaning of his word in our heart mind and soul.

So if following the Bible strictly isn't the best idea, there will no doubt be different interpretations to what the Bible calls for, right?

Is it right to criticize someone else's interpretation of the Bible?

[Rickeo]

So if following the Bible strictly isn't the best idea, there will no doubt be different interpretations to what the Bible calls for, right?

Is it right to criticize someone else's interpretation of the Bible?

You have to understand what I say here if someone is taking it way out of context then yes it's right to criticize them for example west bro baptist church claims God doesn't love everyone which is wrong and then they try and back it up by one Bible verse which they take way out of context.

However some Christians may intemperate things differently where both parties may be right but we just view things differently :)

Hope that answers your question.

God Bless

Rick

[tf_arl_90]

However some Christians may intemperate things differently where both parties may be right but we just view things differently :)

Thanks :)

So if a Christian believes premarital sex is not forbidden by the Bible, and another believes it is...both are right?

[Rickeo]

So if a Christian believes premarital sex is not forbidden by the Bible, and another believes it is...both are right?

No because you can't hide from facts and fornication as I described above is clearly mentioned in the New Testament and it means one thing :) so you see if someone didn't agree with it it's just ignoring facts :)

If everything fits well the Bible scripture your interpreting it in the right manner and historical facts support it, we study how the language was meant in those days then you will come to the right conclusions behind the Bible. Also not to forget letting the Holy Spirit lead you :)

Rick

[Nintendus]

Hey Rick thanks for answering my questions :)


No because you can't hide from facts and fornication as I described above is clearly mentioned in the New Testament
I'm not sure whether it is or not. That one in Matthew, which as far as I can tell is it's only direct instance of use in the new testament is translated differently in my bible - which is the new international version - " 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander."

Apparantly the word in question is "porneia", which if I understand correctly is a broad catch all term for all sorts of sexual immorality.

Although there is an interesting article here - http://www.libchrist.com/bible/immoral.html - suggesting what is meant by the term in the context of the bible.

Similary you will find that fornications does not appear in any of the other passages you quoted. If you read the Ezekiel one further you will see that what it is describing would to anyone be considered sexual immorality, certainly it is not an example of pre-marital sex.

[Rickeo]

You are a very clever guy lol :)

Check the Message translation but that translation isn't the best so I can't help but say your right.

I can't really think of anything to say but my personal opinions so I would say ok in ways your right it doesn't speak directly against it but it does in the old Testament but :) if you wanna say that in the Old Testament it don't matter fair enough but I suppose that's personal belief.

Your an intelligent guy morally I think u will find the answer.

Sorry lol dnt mean to sound blunt it's just I dunno what else to say ur a top guy and have out done me lol.

Sorry I can hold my hands up and say when I don't have an answer and I think that's important to many pastors act as if they have an answer for anything I just have to say I trust in myself and God leading me in the Holy Spirit lol :) so yea :)

Sorry I couldn't give you a better answer :)

Much love & God Bless

Rick

[tf_arl_90]

No because you can't hide from facts and fornication as I described above is clearly mentioned in the New Testament and it means one thing :) so you see if someone didn't agree with it it's just ignoring facts :)

If everything fits well the Bible scripture your interpreting it in the right manner and historical facts support it, we study how the language was meant in those days then you will come to the right conclusions behind the Bible. Also not to forget letting the Holy Spirit lead you :)

Rick

I was pretty much getting at what Nintendus said, he just happens to articulate his points much better than I do. But I didn't want you to think I ignored your reply.

Thanks again!

[Kate]

I just have to say I trust in myself and God leading me in the Holy Spirit lol :) so yea :)

So in other words, when you get caught out by one of the many gliches in the bible, you put it all down to faith?

*shrugs. I do not get religion.

[Rickeo]

So in other words, when you get caught out by one of the many gliches in the bible, you put it all down to faith?

*shrugs. I do not get religion.

Nope not at all but to a degree faith plays apart in everything, how many times do you look before you sit on a chair more often than not you wont look you put faith in a chair a silly chair that's just an object less significant than you to support you and keep you up, when people go sky diving, when people eat my cooking ;) etc they all put trust in something else or someone else they put FAITH in them :)

But when Christians put faith in God they're the ones who get laughed at are mocked ;)

Rick

[tf_arl_90]

Nope not at all but to a degree faith plays apart in everything, how many times do you look before you sit on a chair more often than not you wont look you put faith in a chair a silly chair that's just an object less significant than you to support you and keep you up, when people go sky diving, when people eat my cooking ;) etc they all put trust in something else or someone else they put FAITH in them :)

But when Christians put faith in God they're the ones who get laughed at are mocked ;)

Rick

I know I'm stating the obvious but, you can see and feel the chair. You *know* it's there before you sit. You can have faith in God, but you can't physically see or feel him. Spiritually, you can see and feel him, so you *know* he's there.

And to be fair, there is a certain type of faith involved in atheism, causing them to be laughed at and mocked by plenty of people too.

[Rickeo]

You can have faith in God, but you can't physically see or feel him.

Can you physically see or feel your brain??

But it's there :)

It's a question of philosophy now, but am not here to debate rather answer questions I'd NEVER compromise my beliefs for anything or anyone :)

Rick

[Nintendus]

You are a very clever guy lol :)

Check the Message translation but that translation isn't the best so I can't help but say your right.

I can't really think of anything to say but my personal opinions so I would say ok in ways your right it doesn't speak directly against it but it does in the old Testament but :) if you wanna say that in the Old Testament it don't matter fair enough but I suppose that's personal belief.

Your an intelligent guy morally I think u will find the answer.

Sorry lol dnt mean to sound blunt it's just I dunno what else to say ur a top guy and have out done me lol.

Sorry I can hold my hands up and say when I don't have an answer and I think that's important to many pastors act as if they have an answer for anything I just have to say I trust in myself and God leading me in the Holy Spirit lol :) so yea :)

Sorry I couldn't give you a better answer :)

Much love & God Bless

Rick
My friend, you have given some very good answers to my tougher question. As to reading of the bible, I think it would be fair to say that when reading it you can merely hope that you are reading it in the way you truely and honestly believe it to correct - without having any prejudice or desire influencing your intepretation. Do you agree?

As a side note, I think you'll make a great youth pastor. You do not shy away from any of our tough questions, and more importantly you deliever the gospel in a very human way. :).


I was pretty much getting at what Nintendus said, he just happens to articulate his points much better than I do.
I think my finer attribute is my desire to uphold 'free-speach' xD. Damn my inability to alter thread titles!

[lipgloss]

tx for answering my question. I appreciate it. Oh, and btw, I really respect you for having conviction in what you believe. There are a lot of people who call themselves christians, but not many of them do much about it. thumbs up!

[GemmaJamPot]

Can you physically see or feel your brain??

I am usually impressed by the way you argue your points... however, this one seemed a little careless; as there is actual physical evidence that your brain is there, however no physical evidence that God is there...


It's a question of philosophy now, but am not here to debate rather answer questions I'd NEVER compromise my beliefs for anything or anyone
I respect you for that :)

X

[Rickeo]

My friend, you have given some very good answers to my tougher question. As to reading of the bible, I think it would be fair to say that when reading it you can merely hope that you are reading it in the way you truely and honestly believe it to correct - without having any prejudice or desire influencing your intepretation. Do you agree?

Yea to an degree i agree but I have to say some things are against my religion and are not right and I agree with that but there is never any need to be rude or disrespect anyone because no one is any better or any worse than me we are all equal and I do wrong and am far from perfect.


As a side note, I think you'll make a great youth pastor. You do not shy away from any of our tough questions, and more importantly you deliever the gospel in a very human way.

That has to be one of the nicest things said in this whole thread thank you so much made me smile I needed that your a top guy (Y) :D


tx for answering my question. I appreciate it. Oh, and btw, I really respect you for having conviction in what you believe. There are a lot of people who call themselves christians, but not many of them do much about it. thumbs up!

Thumbs up :D

[Rickeo]

I am usually impressed by the way you argue your points... however, this one seemed a little careless; as there is actual physical evidence that your brain is there, however no physical evidence that God is there...

Sorry I should have explained better, look back in history thanks to medical equipment etc we know we have brains however what would they have knows about the brain back then??

Ok yea there is physical evidence of it NOW however there wasn't in ancient times and people have to accept the possibility that one day you may have evidence that God is there.

One of my fav quotes from the film City of Angels is some things are real whether you believe in them or not :) I love that :D

Sorry I wish I could have explained it better :)

[GemmaJamPot]

Sorry I should have explained better, look back in history thanks to medical equipment etc we know we have brains however what would they have knows about the brain back then??

Ok yea there is physical evidence of it NOW however there wasn't in ancient times and people have to accept the possibility that one day you may have evidence that God is there.


Ahh okay... no need to apologise hun :) And yeah, I agree with that... one day there may be evidence to prove that God is there and I accept that; however I think that in our modern day society, many people will be in denial about it still and reject it, even if there is factual evidence.


some things are real whether you believe in them or not

:) I like that... Coz I used to be ignorant to the idea of the possibility that there is a God etc; and had a few reasons, all of which were argued against, and kinda opened my eyes to the fact that I dont know if there is or isnt; and just because I dont know that, doesnt mean there isnt one. (If that makes sense).

Thanks for your quick and efficiant reply :)

X

[GemmaJamPot]

As a side note, I think you'll make a great youth pastor. You do not shy away from any of our tough questions, and more importantly you deliever the gospel in a very human way. :).

I agree :D Until this thread, I didnt even know what a Youth Pastor was, lol... (so thanks for teaching me) but now I do and I agree with what Nintendus said :) Good luck. :)

X

[AshleyLove.]

Good for you. :]

I can't really think of any questions that I would have right now, but if any just happen to pop up, I'll let you know. :]