Massive Israeli air raids on Gaza

[Wacko1574]

The missile strikes caused panic in Gaza


Israeli F-16 bombers have launched a series of air strikes against key targets in the Gaza Strip, killing at least 195 people, medical chiefs say.

Gaza officials and the Hamas militant group said more than 300 others were hurt as missiles hit security compounds and militant bases.



The strikes, the most intense Israeli attacks on Gaza for decades, come days after a truce with Hamas expired.



Israel said the operation would go on "as long as necessary".



Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak said "it won't be easy and it won't be short".

"There is a time for calm and a time for fighting, and now the time has come to fight," he said, quoted by Reuters.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800985.stm


Okay so is this ever going to end. Innocent People are dying. WTF! @ as long as necessary.

~this news put me in a really shitty mood today~

[nyx]

The Middle Easy is a pretty fucked up area of the world, its sad that these stories no longer seem to surprise me.

[Wacko1574]

It is pretty fucked! But this story in particular came out of the blue. No one ever expected that Israel would raid them all of a sudden KABOOM!

Not to mention the Leaders not even trying to help...since Israel has America on their side ...

[nyx]

I know that makes me angry.

I have to say the whole history of the conflict is so confusing that I don't totally have grip on it, but I'm not overly surprised Israel have started bombing, it might be out of the blue but if you look at the history, its often like that, quite sporadic and the same grievances never go away.

Its a sad sad state of affairs.

[Wacko1574]

Yeah agree about the confusion of conflict....It really does have a long history to it ...Muslims ..then Jews and Christians ...all Claiming they own the area .....and no one want to live in peace with the other...meh!

and what the heck ever happened to 'THE SHARRON!' ~its not like he will make things better or anything!~

[nyx]

Haha, aye.

I mean I can see where all the groups are coming from and all, if you think something is yours you tend to want to protect it or fight over it. But at the same time you can't help but wonder why they don't just step back and go, 'Right lads we've been fighting over this for hundreds of years and not got anywhere, why don't we just live together happily?'

[Wacko1574]

Haha, aye.

I mean I can see where all the groups are coming from and all, if you think something is yours you tend to want to protect it or fight over it. But at the same time you can't help but wonder why they don't just step back and go, 'Right lads we've been fighting over this for hundreds of years and not got anywhere, why don't we just live together happily?'

MY POINT EXACTLY! haha...to think they would after all these years...they actually would go for peace...but NO! its all about pride and not backing down. All the three religions want 'Al-Aqsa Mosque, Jerusalem' where all the conflict started. I mean haven't people heard of schedules. Just divide it by months. Each religion have it for 4 months. Fair enough! No one dies, all live in peace .....Good LORD this is frustrating!

To add to this too, the Arabs (KSA and EGYPT) are doing nothing to help. Since Hamas was elected, they have washed their hands of the case, financial support, food, and housing, even for Gaza people to go for pilgrimage in KSA. Everyone just doesn't want to piss of America! haha weird ass leaders!


oooh look at me all serious and political ...me like! XD

[nyx]

Haha, yeah or do it by days of the week or something. Or just build two walls and divide the whole place in three! Ok maybe not.

Yeah the whole situation is ridiculous. Whilst the Americans aren't improving the situation, I can't see that their absence would make a great deal of difference, this whole thing goes way too deep now.

[Wacko1574]

Actually America does make a difference since most of America's population is Jewish. Hence, America has to be in Israel's side. <-- i think not sure of that info. Agree though the issue goes way to deep.

haha i think i like the dividing it by weeks...thinks its better.

[nyx]

Aye I know American Jews/Christians/Muslims etc conplicate the issue, but what I mean is to say if America decided it wasn't supporting Israel and was gonna let the world get on with things by itself (fat chance I know) I don't think the conflict would change THAT much. Maybe the Arabs etc, might provide the people of Gaza with more support etc. but ultimately it wouldn't make a conclusion of the whole damn thing any more likely!

[Nammy]

This is not surprising. They are launching these air raids because hamas or whoever keeps firing rockets into Israel from the Gaza strip. You will also likely see much higher civilian deaths because terrorists tend to hide behind civilians.

[TheMan]

This is not surprising. They are launching these air raids because hamas or whoever keeps firing rockets into Israel from the Gaza strip.

If the International Community had done its job and forced Israel to end the blockade of Gaza, this would never have happened. Are the Palestinians supposed to just allow the Israelis to slowly starve them to death without putting up any kind of fight?

[Nammy]

If the International Community had done its job and forced Israel to end the blockade of Gaza, this would never have happened. Are the Palestinians supposed to just allow the Israelis to slowly starve them to death without putting up any kind of fight?

Despite BBC reports, nobody is being starved out by the Israelis in Gaza. I know it's all the rage these days to be anti-semitic under the guise of being anti-zionist, but get your shit straight. The Israelis go out of their way to try and make peace with these people but what always happens? They lob missiles into border towns knowing Israel will retaliate and it will be plastered all over the world via BBC, CNN etc. And as always it will look like the Israelis are the evil bad jews going out of their way to kill as many poor muslims as possible.

Let's forget the fact those Palestinian terrorists always hide among civilians when they know a retaliation is coming, let's forget the fact they often place those missile launchers right in the middle of civilian neighborhoods knowing that the Israelis will bomb them anyways.

Looks like a typical setup to me. Hamas leaders lob a few missiles into Israel to provoke them, Israel responds and Hamas can say to the world "Look! Evil jews killing poor Palestinians!" And of course the media feeds right into it resulting in idiots like you who think Israel is the bad guy for defending themselves.

[TheMan]

Despite BBC reports, nobody is being starved out by the Israelis in Gaza.

"By function of this blockade, 1.5 million Palestinian men, women and children have been forcibly deprived of their most basic human rights for months" the High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said in a statement.

"This is in direct contravention of international human rights and humanitarian law. It must end now," she said.


I know it's all the rage these days to be anti-semitic under the guise of being anti-zionist, but get your shit straight.

Right..I’m anti-semitic because I’m stating facts you don’t agree with?


The Israelis go out of their way to try and make peace with these people but what always happens?

Israel should have stayed within their UN Mandated territory and should not have stolen land and property from the Palestinians. Israel must withdraw forces and settlers to the 1967 Green Line and provide financial reparation for the damage it has done. It should also try to become a responsible nation by complying with International Law and UN resolutions.


They lob missiles into border towns knowing Israel will retaliate and it will be plastered all over the world via BBC, CNN etc. And as always it will look like the Israelis are the evil bad jews going out of their way to kill as many poor muslims as possible.

Are you fucking kidding me? I don’t know about BBC and CNN but all the other American media outlets (ABC, FOX..) are far from picturing Israelis as "bad evil jews".


Let's forget the fact those Palestinian terrorists always hide among civilians when they know a retaliation is coming, let's forget the fact they often place those missile launchers right in the middle of civilian neighborhoods knowing that the Israelis will bomb them anyways.

Oh yeah, because the best way to curb aggression is with bombs. This is a gross misuse of power, Israel has consistently overreacted. 250 human being were killed, 400 injured in this attack. This is an atrocity, pure and simple.


Looks like a typical setup to me. Hamas leaders lob a few missiles into Israel to provoke them, Israel responds and Hamas can say to the world "Look! Evil jews killing poor Palestinians!" And of course the media feeds right into it resulting in idiots like you who think Israel is the bad guy for defending themselves.

You have it all wrong.

[Nammy]

"By function of this blockade, 1.5 million Palestinian men, women and children have been forcibly deprived of their most basic human rights for months" the High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said in a statement.

"This is in direct contravention of international human rights and humanitarian law. It must end now," she said.



Right..I’m anti-semitic because I’m stating facts you don’t agree with?
You're not stating any facts at all. You are quoting a UN moron which is notorious about condemning Israel for everything. So I would hardly call that baboon credible.
Something that was neglected to be mentioned is the blockade is in response to constant rocket and mortar barrages. During the blockade Israel would truck in food and medicine and even provide electricity to some areas. Also failed to be mentioned is the whole time Israel has said it would lighten up the blockade or lift if they would stop launching those fucking rockets at them. But hey, you and your jew hating UN never seems to care about that.




Israel should have stayed within their UN Mandated territory and should not have stolen land and property from the Palestinians. Israel must withdraw forces and settlers to the 1967 Green Line and provide financial reparation for the damage it has done. It should also try to become a responsible nation by complying with International Law and UN resolutions.
Hahaha are you kidding? Do you even know why that war happened and who started it? It all started when Egypt massed 1000 tanks 100,000 troops on the Israeli border. When it was all over Israel had gained control of that territory.
Also Israel has given some of it back. They even went as far as to remove Jewish settlers by force in some areas.




Are you fucking kidding me? I don’t know about BBC and CNN but all the other American media outlets (ABC, FOX..) are far from picturing Israelis as "bad evil jews".
Fox is probably the only one that doesn't. Everybody else tries and paints them as the evil zionist jews picking on the poor innocent palestenians.




Oh yeah, because the best way to curb aggression is with bombs. This is a gross misuse of power, Israel has consistently overreacted. 250 human being were killed, 400 injured in this attack. This is an atrocity, pure and simple.
Nothing else seems to work does it? So what do they have left to do? Try and destroy Hamas. God forbid if Israel tries to protect themselves.




You have it all wrong.
And you have your head up your ass. Try pulling it out and looking around once in a while.

[TheMan]

You're not stating any facts at all. You are quoting a UN moron which is notorious about condemning Israel for everything. So I would hardly call that baboon credible.

You are dismissing Navi Pillay’s (the UN High Commissionser for Human Rights) opinion on the blockage because according to you she’s a jew hater?
That’s bullshit.


Something that was neglected to be mentioned is the blockade is in response to constant rocket and mortar barrages. During the blockade Israel would truck in food and medicine and even provide electricity to some areas. Also failed to be mentioned is the whole time Israel has said it would lighten up the blockade or lift if they would stop launching those fucking rockets at them. But hey, you and your jew hating UN never seems to care about that.

Amnesty International has repeatedly acknowledged Israel's right to take measures to protect its population from rocket and other attacks by Palestinian armed groups in Gaza, but condemned the Israeli authorities' decision to cut off the already tightly-restricted supplies of fuel, electricity and humanitarian assistance to Gaza's inhabitants.

"More than 40 seriously ill patients have died since the Israeli authorities closed Gaza's borders, so denying them access to hospital treatment abroad, but now the entire Gaza population is being put at risk as electricity and fuel supplies run out."


Hahaha are you kidding? Do you even know why that war happened and who started it? It all started when Egypt massed 1000 tanks 100,000 troops on the Israeli border. When it was all over Israel had gained control of that territory. Also Israel has given some of it back. They even went as far as to remove Jewish settlers by force in some areas.

I know about the Six-Day war.
The West Bank and Gaza Strip are occupied territories since Israel took them through military force in the aftermath of the 1967 War and are deemed illegal under the international law.


Fox is probably the only one that doesn't. Everybody else tries and paints them as the evil zionist jews picking on the poor innocent palestenians.

Source?
It looks like you think the whole world is against the jews. You have issues.


Nothing else seems to work does it? So what do they have left to do? Try and destroy Hamas. God forbid if Israel tries to protect themselves.

You REALLY think destroying Hamas will fix the problem? Wow..


And you have your head up your ass. Try pulling it out and looking around once in a while.

Once again, you have it all wrong.

[Wacko1574]

Aye I know American Jews/Christians/Muslims etc conplicate the issue, but what I mean is to say if America decided it wasn't supporting Israel and was gonna let the world get on with things by itself (fat chance I know) I don't think the conflict would change THAT much. Maybe the Arabs etc, might provide the people of Gaza with more support etc. but ultimately it wouldn't make a conclusion of the whole damn thing any more likely!

Well i do agree that helping them out wouldn't end the dispute between Israel and Hamas...actually coming to think of it it would never end >.< But this is what we call the least we can do to help around i guess, its sometimes really hurts to know you cant be there to help.


This is not surprising. They are launching these air raids because hamas or whoever keeps firing rockets into Israel from the Gaza strip. You will also likely see much higher civilian deaths because terrorists tend to hide behind civilians.

Hmm ...You make it sound like Israel is defending itself from the "cruel" acts of Hamas. Hamas has won the election for one reason and that is to protect his country and that he is ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING instead of Yasser Arafat who would appear in the news smile shake hands and leave. I mean they both say they want peace ...but what have either done to bring it. NOTHING. I think Israel and Hamas are both guilty of having pride issues. And to be clear its not like we enjoy watching people in Israel die. They are all innocent civilians, Jews, Muslims, Christians...and they sure shouldnt die for a piece of land.



If the International Community had done its job and forced Israel to end the blockade of Gaza, this would never have happened. Are the Palestinians supposed to just allow the Israelis to slowly starve them to death without putting up any kind of fight?

Nobody can control Israel....I agree with what you say TheMan. I mean...Nammy just look at it from other perspective....if it was Palestine who was in control and doing the blockage and had the support of one of the greatest countries in the world...would you accept the fact that Israel should starve to death. The way I see it its a one-on-one ...when one of them strikes the other has to too. Until everyone dies x_x



Quote: Nammy wrote:
Nothing else seems to work does it? So what do they have left to do? Try and destroy Hamas. God forbid if Israel tries to protect themselves.


Are you kidding me. That would make things a LOT worse.

And about the rest of the comments....i think the media should deliver the news as it is. I mean i actually watch the Arabic and English news...there is a difference and they do tend to take sides. So yeah blaming all the media here too -,-

To Nammy : I am not taking sides here, but i say what i know. Do you think it is fair for the soldiers of Israel to kick Palestine citizens out of their houses, and burn their crops just so that more Israel citizens would have place to live IN PALESTINE. Even though there is a place called Israel in the map, why go raid Palestine?


Hope i made sense ..i got a little carried away ^_^

[Nammy]

You are dismissing Navi Pillay’s (the UN High Commissionser for Human Rights) opinion on the blockage because according to you she’s a jew hater?
That’s bullshit.
Yes I am because that fits the pattern of the UN especially when it comes to human rights. When an organization puts a nation like Lybia in charge of its human rights commission, then nothing they have to say on the subject is credible. Also since she fails to mention this so called human rights catastrophy could be ended NOW if hamas would stop attacking Israel. So yes this person is your garden variety anti-semite.




Amnesty International has repeatedly acknowledged Israel's right to take measures to protect its population from rocket and other attacks by Palestinian armed groups in Gaza, but condemned the Israeli authorities' decision to cut off the already tightly-restricted supplies of fuel, electricity and humanitarian assistance to Gaza's inhabitants.

"More than 40 seriously ill patients have died since the Israeli authorities closed Gaza's borders, so denying them access to hospital treatment abroad, but now the entire Gaza population is being put at risk as electricity and fuel supplies run out."
And guess what would stop all of that? Hamas ceasing it's attacks on Israel. Plain and simple.





I know about the Six-Day war.
The West Bank and Gaza Strip are occupied territories since Israel took them through military force in the aftermath of the 1967 War and are deemed illegal under the international law.
Actually no. Maybe you should take a look at what the drafters of that resolution have to say.

Journal of Palestine Studies, “An Interview with Lord Caradon,” Spring - Summer 1976, pgs 144-45: Q. The basis for any settlement will be United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, of which you were the architect. Would you say there is a contradiction between the part of the resolution that stresses the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and that which calls for Israeli withdrawal from “occupied territories,” but not from “the occupied territories”?
A. I defend the resolution as it stands. What it states, as you know, is first the general principle of inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. That means that you can’t justify holding onto territory merely because you conquered it. We could have said: well, you go back to the 1967 line. But I know the 1967 line, and it’s a rotten line. You couldn’t have a worse line for a permanent international boundary. It’s where the troops happened to be on a certain night in 1948. It’s got no relation to the needs of the situation.
Had we said that you must go back to the 1967 line, which would have resulted if we had specified a retreat from all the occupied territories, we would have been wrong.


MacNeil/Lehrer Report, March 30, 1978:
We didn't say there should be a withdrawal to the '67 line; we did not put the “the” in, we did not say “all the territories” deliberately. We all knew that the boundaries of '67 were not drawn as permanent frontiers, they were a cease-fire line of a couple of decades earlier... . We did not say that the '67 boundaries must be forever.


Daily Star (Beirut), June 12, 1974. Qtd. in Myths and Facts, Leonard J. Davis, pg. 48:
It would have been wrong to demand that Israel return to its positions of 4 June 1967 because those positions were undesirable and artificial. After all, they were just the places the soldiers of each side happened to be the day the fighting stopped in 1948. They were just armistice lines. That's why we didn't demand that the Israelis return to them and I think we were right not to ...
Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338 ... rest on two principles, Israel may administer the territory until its Arab neighbors make peace; and when peace is made, Israel should withdraw to “secure and recognized borders,” which need not be the same as the Armistice Demarcation Lines of 1949. ...

Five-and-a-half months of vehement public diplomacy in 1967 made it perfectly clear what the missing definite article in Resolution 242 means. Ingeniously drafted resolutions calling for withdrawals from “all” the territories were defeated in the Security Council and the General Assembly. Speaker after speaker made it explicit that Israel was not to be forced back to the “fragile” and “vulnerable” Armistice Demarcation Lines, but should retire once peace was made to what Resolution 242 called “secure and recognized” boundaries, agreed to by the parties.

Security Council Resolution 242, approved after the 1967 war, stipulates not only that Israel and its neighboring states should make peace with each other but should establish “a just and lasting peace in the Middle East.” Until that condition is met, Israel is entitled to administer the territories it captured – the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza Strip – and then withdraw from some but not necessarily all of the land to “secure and recognized boundaries free of threats or acts of force.”



... Resolution 242 establishes three principles about the territorial aspect of the peace-making process:
1) Israel can occupy and administer the territories it occupied during the Six-Day War until the Arabs make peace.
2) When peace agreements are reached, they should delineate “secure and recognized” boundaries to which Israel would withdraw.
3) Those boundaries could differ from the Armistice Demarcation Lines of 1949.


Arthur J. Goldberg was the United States representative to the United Nations, 1965-1968, and before that a U.S. Supreme Court justice. He helped draft Resolution 242.


The resolution does not explicitly require that Israel withdraw to the lines that it occupied on June 5, 1967, before the outbreak of the war.

he whole object of Resolution 242 was to allow flexibility in negotiations of territorial boundaries.


Source?
It looks like you think the whole world is against the jews. You have issues. It's true and you are just another example of this.




You REALLY think destroying Hamas will fix the problem? Wow..It would certainly help since that group goes out of its way to continue the violence.




Once again, you have it all wrong.And once again you don't even have a basic clue of the facts or the history of the conflict.
Do you honestly believe the Israeli territory gains of the six day war are the cause of Palestinian terrorism? If so, then I'm right and you truly have no idea what you are talking about.

[Nammy]

Hmm ...You make it sound like Israel is defending itself from the "cruel" acts of Hamas.
That's exactly what Israel is doing. They attack only in response to escalating terrorist attacks.



Hamas has won the election for one reason and that is to protect his country and that he is ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING
Protect the country? By continually attacking Israel knowing what the response would be? Doesn't sound like they are trying to protect anything at all.






Nobody can control Israel....I agree with what you say TheMan. I mean...Nammy just look at it from other perspective....if it was Palestine who was in control and doing the blockage and had the support of one of the greatest countries in the world...would you accept the fact that Israel should starve to death. The way I see it its a one-on-one ...when one of them strikes the other has to too. Until everyone dies x_x
Irrelevent. None of this would be happening if they would just leave Israel alone. From the moment of its creation Israel has been under attack. What you and knucklehead seem to be implying is that Israel is wrong for defending itself.






Are you kidding me. That would make things a LOT worse.
And doing nothing is going to make it better? Remember Israel withdrew from Gaza back in 2005. A lot of good that did.





To Nammy : I am not taking sides here, but i say what i know. Do you think it is fair for the soldiers of Israel to kick Palestine citizens out of their houses, and burn their crops just so that more Israel citizens would have place to live IN PALESTINE. Even though there is a place called Israel in the map, why go raid Palestine?
Before there was Israel it was a British mandate, before that the area was part of the Ottoman Empire. When it was carved up, two partitions were offered. One for Israel and one for Palestinians. Guess who rejected the deal, the Arabs did. And the moment Israel announced its independence it was attacked not only from outside nations but from the Palestinian population within.
Also even before Israel was formed, Jewish settlers were buying that land from Arab land owners and as a result the peasant population had to be moved. That has been going on for decades. How do you deal with a hostile population that hates you simply for being Jewish? That is why you see Israel building walls and those huge enclaves.

They could withdraw from ALL occupied territory and nothing will change. How do I know? Because this has been going on long before those territories were occupied and even before there was an Israeli nation.

Why do I say the world is against them? Because they ALWAYS place the blame for the violence and conflict on Israel which is in no way true.

[TheMan]

im drunk as fuck, i didnt read any of your shit, but i might get back to you later you jew monkey-looking lover.

[TheMan]

okay i read some of your bs, it's quiet funny how your are COMPLETTLY dismissing the reason WHY the hamas are sending rockets in the first place...In your little head Israelis are the VICTIMS. Well, open your eyes...YOU'RE WRONG.

[Nammy]

okay i read some of your bs, it's quiet funny how your are COMPLETTLY dismissing the reason WHY the hamas are sending rockets in the first place...In your little head Israelis are the VICTIMS. Well, open your eyes...YOU'RE WRONG.
Sleep it off tough guy.

[tf_arl_90]

Actually America does make a difference since most of America's population is Jewish. Hence, America has to be in Israel's side. <-- i think not sure of that info.

Jews make up like 2% of the total US population. Granted, 2% is a much bigger percentage than in other countries, but most of America's population is Christian, not Jewish. The bigger factor is AIPAC, which is one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the country.



Looks like a typical setup to me. Hamas leaders lob a few missiles into Israel to provoke them, Israel responds and Hamas can say to the world "Look! Evil jews killing poor Palestinians!" And of course the media feeds right into it resulting in idiots like you who think Israel is the bad guy for defending themselves.

Hit the nail on the head, if you ask me.


okay i read some of your bs, it's quiet funny how your are COMPLETTLY dismissing the reason WHY the hamas are sending rockets in the first place...In your little head Israelis are the VICTIMS. Well, open your eyes...YOU'RE WRONG.

So what exactly is Hamas accomplishing by firing those rockets?

[nyx]

This thread and the other Middle Eastern one makes me laugh. How anyone can think either side is in the right and the other is in the wrong is beyond me.

[tf_arl_90]

This thread and the other Middle Eastern one makes me laugh. How anyone can think either side is in the right and the other is in the wrong is beyond me.

Normally I would agree with you. For the Palestinian-Israeli conflict as a whole, I favor a two state solution.

However for this isolated event, I'm not really sure why Israel is getting most of the blame. Yes, it's terrible what's going on. I don't support the killing of anyone, but I'm also not really sure what the world expects Israel to do but defend its country. Hamas violated a cease fire, Israel gave them time to stop firing the rockets and Hamas STILL continued. Now Israel is retaliating. What would any other normal country do?

[nyx]

Oh yeah I agree Israel is within its rights. The Israelis do tend to be a little heavy handed IMO though.

But yeah I have no intention of getting into a debate about it. In a few months time this particular conflict won't stand out in the conflicts of the last hundreds of years. Its unfortunate as I said earlier in this thread, but not likely to solve itself anytime soon. And I don't think pointing fingers really achieves anything.

[nyx]

Oh yeah I agree Israel is within its rights. The Israelis do tend to be a little heavy handed IMO though.

But yeah I have no intention of getting into a debate about it. In a few months time this particular conflict won't stand out in the conflicts of the last hundreds of years. Its unfortunate as I said earlier in this thread, but not likely to solve itself anytime soon. And I don't think pointing fingers really achieves anything.