United States losing freedom?

[Ripplemagne]

The U.S. has dropped a spot behind Canada (http://www.heritage.org/index/Country/UnitedStates) due to aggrandizement of our government and high taxes. Particularly, the bailout and stimulus bill put us behind considerably.

What do you think this says about us as a nation?

[Phlyarologist]

Says I'm moving elsewhere eventually. ;*

[Prophet]

I think it says that the bipartisan system of politics is pretty shitty in times like these, I'm inclined to agree with George Washington

[idk]

I'm considering moving out of the US to a more socialist nation. On the other hand, with the place I was already born to in society, I could still make it fine socialism or not.

[nyx]

Oooh thats a really cool website.

Deceptive title of thread though untilo you follow the link, this is only economic freedom, not freedom more generally.

The US always was good at claiming they were more free than they were.

[Ripplemagne]

Economic freedom is still part of freedom. It's the reason why we became the "Land of Opportunity" and have been for quite some time now.

[nyx]

Yeah I know and a fairly significant part of it, but I was disappointed that the chart was only about economic freedom - what you wrote and people replied suggested something broader. But then calculating other types of freedom would be harder anyway.

[Ripplemagne]

Social freedoms are a bit harder to gauge because it'd have to cover every single topic and make a checklist based on that.

[nyx]

Its basically incomparable as well due to cultural/religious differences and also what people actually want, I mean, its one of those things, freedom that is, which is like the pinnacle of everything that is good in the West, and thats just how we see it - like democracy and equality, but actually thats not necessarily right, thats just what we've settled on at the moment.

I'm sorry I'm knackered I have a good point to make, but I'm struggling to think of ANY of the words or put them in an order that makes sense, so that was more than likely incomprehensible.

[Duvets]

Needz sum moar socialism

[Ripplemagne]

I understand what you're saying though. :P

[nyx]

Oh good :D

[idk]

In socialism there is still room for reaping the fruits of your own labors. China right now is like the US was 100 years ago. The rich there have the same (or worse) luxuries the rich have here, but in the US the rich's tax money is put toward building up the rest of the people rather than letting them eat shit and die.

[Ripplemagne]

Source?

[idk]

I lived in China. Tax money in the US is at least put toward public schooling and public highways, while in China money is pretty much free-range. Public schools in China are complete shit, and someone going through one has little to no chance of making it anywhere. All most people see of China is the large cities and the great commerce, but surrounding that is basically the US one hundred years ago.

[Ripplemagne]

...I'm failing to see the point you're trying to make here.

[clockworkmice]

Who gives a shit about what some online score rates your country?!? Are you happ in America, if so, stay there, if not, leave.

If my government takes half of my well earned money and spends it on hand cream and kleenexes, I'll be pissed off. They currently spend it on well working medical and education centres. I daon't like the way some of themoney is spent, so I vote against spending it there.

To simplify, he means that even though scandinavia will take much of it's people's money, the money is spent ON THEM and is used EFFECTIVELY and so it's probably a nice place to live. Whereas China spends it's people's money POORLY and so it's shit.

Clockworkmice

[Ripplemagne]

No one said anything about leaving. The point wasn't to say "OMG EMERIKA SUK". The point was that the country is heading in a different direction, which is contrary to its slogans.

[clockworkmice]

The political evolution of a country as stable as America is probably a vary good thing being that it is most likely beneficial as there will be far less corruption than in an unstable nation.

America is a democracy, therefore, the fact that it's moving away from its slogans is because most people in the country want to move away or because the well informed academics of the country think that it would be better. I believe it's most likely a good thing being that either people want it or that those with the correct political knowledge think it would make the country better.

Clockworkmice

[Ripplemagne]

The Tea Party Movement is evidence that most people in the country do not want what's happening to the United States right now. We're sinking into deeper deficit, becoming more authoritarian and by way of tacking everyone to the government's teet, all we're doing is decreasing work efficiency and giving us less freedom.

The founders of the United States may very well have constructed a perfect government, but our Constitution is continually ignored in favor of elitists in power. It has nothing to do with what the people want, but government expansion.

And no, America is not a democracy. Not a direct democracy, anyway. It was never intended to be a direct democracy. America is a republic on the verge of socialism. That illustrates my point as good as any other because our elect are abusing the system, relying on Cloward-Piven tactics and plunging us into debt.

I like to look at the glass half full too, but not at the expense of getting my OJ slowly sipped out of the glass behind my back.

[clockworkmice]

The Tea Party Movement is evidence that most people in the country do not want what's happening to the United States right now. We're sinking into deeper deficit, becoming more authoritarian and by way of tacking everyone to the government's teet, all we're doing is decreasing work efficiency and giving us less freedom.


How many people (estimated) support the tea party movement? I must admit I haven't come across any of this political unrest in the news, though living in GB my knowledge of american politics is limited. It's hard to say if a country is truly losing freedom, it will vary from person to person, though from the figures it does appear that options for you yanks are becoming more and more restricted.

The problem is that lack of freedom probably won't make the news because most of the political news comes from those at the top, and they're not going to want to lose power are they?

Clockworkmice

[Ripplemagne]

Most in the liberal media won't cover the story or even acknowledge that it's happening. Time magazine went out of its way to erase it from 2009 history.

[lawlseanny]

Tbh, the Tea Party movement isn't evidence that MOST Americans don't want what's happening to the US currently, but evidence that SOME don't. To even imply that they're speaking for MOST of us is a bit ridiculous, especially considering the group isn't large enough to count for most Americans.