animal rights

[!Jazzy!]

okay,
i know this topic has probably been brought to atention a million times before, but, it really is getting out of control! and i know sitting at a keyboard typing a bunch of words isnt going to help either...but, animal cruelty should be stopped!
i believe that we should give animals a voice and stand up for there rights.
just think of all the cruelty that absolutely mutates and screws up an animals mental health!
and the pain and trauma they go through, just so we can eat meat that goes into our mouths and out the other end again!
i mean, it would be okay if people just shot them and thats it, but, what about the animals that are skun alive for fashion, fur coats!
and all the dogs that are kicked in the guts by bad owners.
i have seen people in my town, try to hit cats and rabbits with there cars, there not gonna eat them, just because they think its fun!
and the poor little kitten who was ran over several times by and gang of kids with bycicals.
and even caged chickens is a form of cruelty, yeah sure, there not getting whipped or hit, but they never come out of there cage, unless they die!
we can help stop this, if you see a hungry dog on the street, you could take it to an animal shelter or adopt it.
if you see a cruel owner kick there pet, call the RSPCA.
this cruelty needs to stop.

[toxic kiss]

:agree:

[michelle]

:agree:

[punk-rocker]

ok :D
hehe

[shenalmighty]

I agree no meat for me.

[Pearson]

People care more about animal rights than homeless people in this country, bit wrong is'nt it?

[Wise Monkey]

I hate to sound like the Bad guy But Animals shouldn't have rights because for one. They are our food two they are pets three none show any signs of reasoning nor show the capabilty that they understand us. "animals are trained not taught".

[shenalmighty]

Humans are trained to trained to learn from school and i dont care thats my opinion and you got your own i just feel good being with animals without the hypocrasy of eating other ones and being a Speciast.

[suzy223]

Since I am new here, I shall try not to object to any threads.

Animal rights are very lacking, nowadays.

Every living thing in this world deserves the right to live. No living thing should be brought down because of it's looks or size.

-suzy-chan^ ^

[!Jazzy!]

wise monkey,
animals still have emotions and feelings and they do have minds of there own.
dont you think they know whats going on?
for example: i used to have five guinea pigs, i had 3 males and 2 females.
the two females were best friends,but one died.
and the other female,neo, was grieving, she was hiding away and lonely.
but we started paying attention to her and petting her and she overcome that.
just like us people.
animals should be treated as equals, if you want to know how animals feel just look at yourself, they have the same emotions as us.

[douchebag007]

damn hippies got no right bitchin bout dam animals when people in africa starvin

i mean animals get rights and cruelty is bad but people is mo important and some just dont give a damn about peeps compared to animals and dat aint right

u know wat im sayin?

[PerareHet]

its too bad DNG boys dont count as people or animals

[douchebag007]

wat da f. u bein' racist?

just cos we probably bea u up cos u was in our business doesnt mean u get to be racist punk

[PerareHet]

im not bein racist, yous are all mofos and thiefs.

[douchebag007]

shizz we mofos but we aint thieves

wtf we clean man, u just sayin we thieves cos we blak or sumfin. seein ur other posts u seem like u got a problem wif da color of mah skin not what i done

and shizz you stalking me through da forums, you post in near every topic i post. shizz man cut dat out

[Wise Monkey]

wise monkey,
animals still have emotions and feelings and they do have minds of there own.
dont you think they know whats going on?
for example: i used to have five guinea pigs, i had 3 males and 2 females.
the two females were best friends,but one died.
and the other female,neo, was grieving, she was hiding away and lonely.
but we started paying attention to her and petting her and she overcome that.
just like us people.
animals should be treated as equals, if you want to know how animals feel just look at yourself, they have the same emotions as us.










hmmm K, like the man said after me its my opinion and if people really do care "I am not saying names" then they would do something about it rather then talk and debate on the subject. Don't get me wrong I do have a surtain level of respect for animals but thats it. They ARE NOT my equals nor "friends".

[shenalmighty]

damn hippies got no right bitchin bout dam animals when people in africa starvin

i mean animals get rights and cruelty is bad but people is mo important and some just dont give a damn about peeps compared to animals and dat aint right

u know wat im sayin?Yeah a shame isnt it.20 Million people die each year of starvation if the USA cut down its meat intake by 10% thered be enough Resources to feed 100 million people each year.

[Wise Monkey]

Money talks and bull shit walks I learned that saying in America. So I highly doubt they will cut down on there meat intake to feed the poor and homeless

[shenalmighty]

No cause there greedy but thats what they could do seeing as many of these starving countrys are used to import food for livestock in the USA

[KathyN]

I think animals should be treated better and maybe have some rights.

I am not a vegetarian but I like animals, I really feel sorry for every cow or chicken or fish I eat, but I think we are predators and need meat for a healthy life... In addition I think animals should be treated by nature laws...(I'll explain my point later).


wise monkey,
animals still have emotions and feelings and they do have minds of there own.
dont you think they know whats going on?
for example: i used to have five guinea pigs, i had 3 males and 2 females.
the two females were best friends,but one died.
and the other female,neo, was grieving, she was hiding away and lonely.
but we started paying attention to her and petting her and she overcome that.
just like us people.
animals should be treated as equals, if you want to know how animals feel just look at yourself, they have the same emotions as us.

I agree, animals do have emotions and feelings like we do, so we don't need to be cruel towards them. We need to respect them like they do in nature. Predators kill animals for food, not for fur and for fun, they never scare other animals or bite them to show that they are stronger like we do. When an animal is scaring another animal it has a reason (territorial issue and stuff). People are doing things to increase their ego...

If we are smart creatures, smart predators that raise animals for food, we need to provide a more natural habit for them, it will make their meat more healthy and their life better and natural.


Yeah a shame isnt it.20 Million people die each year of starvation if the USA cut down its meat intake by 10% thered be enough Resources to feed 100 million people each year.
So, what can we do? we can donate, we can send them food... but no one never really can or would try to change things (I mean the government). Regular people can demand or stand for anything, bur they usually don't have enough power to make things work.

[horsey gal]

hate to sound like the Bad guy But Animals shouldn't have rights because for one. They are our food two they are pets three none show any signs of reasoning nor show the capabilty that they understand us. "animals are trained not taught".

fair enough thats your opinion, but i beg to differ. animals are extremely smart in there own right. i bet you didnt no dolphins can reconise there own reflection in a mirror, that means they are aware of them selves just like a human is, monkeys are the same.
i do eat meat i must say and i really enjoy it and im not totally against killing animals for food cosumption as long as its done humanly. but animal cruelty in people can lead to abuse against humans later on. yes there are starving people but there are starving animals too. animals have been around a hell of a lont longer than we have and they are exactly were we came from, i mean we evolved from them! they are part of us. they help people when no other person can. so what they dont have the exact same entellegence as us, thats the only difference. i read about how this ladies dog was nipping her shirt by her breast, she went in for a test and they found a small cancer lump the size of a pea. the lady would never have gone to get a scan had it no been for her dog. how smart that ? animals can predict storms , earthuakes and stuff before we can , and even or technology can. and almost all inventions we have made have had things to do with animals or what an animal can already do, we have just advanced it. animals like pigs once thought to be stupid are as smart as 4-5 year old children. so in that respect i think animal abuse cases should be treated like child abuse cases, both are just as innocent and in all honesty we need animals to live.

[!Jazzy!]

exactly my point, well said!

[Shane]

People care more about animal rights than homeless people in this country, bit wrong is'nt it?
I agree with you there mate. Drop the animal crap for a while and sort out the homeless and unemployed.

[NewAbortion]

I agree with you there mate. Drop the animal crap for a while and sort out the homeless and unemployed.The homeless are, 99% of the time, homeless because they choose to be so. They chose to become homeless, and they refuse to fix their lives. If they won't, then they shouldn't expect others to fix their lives for them.

....I'm totally getting flamed for that, aren't I?

~Maggot

[!Jazzy!]

why cant the homeless just build themselve a nice little hut or burrow?
they can escape there situation, animals cant.
its not humans fault that there are stuborn, stuffed up homeless people out there.
but the ones who are hungry and want a home, i feel that they should be helped.
the government is doing something about homeless people anyway.
as for poverty, well... its not our fault if there government takes the donations away from the needy and doesnt hep there own country, its not our job to fix that up, australia doesnt need to know things like that because there government can only fix that.
as for animal rights, well, thats a world issue, thats something that everyone should be focusing on.

[NewAbortion]

why cant the homeless just build themselve a nice little hut or burrow?
they can escape there situation, animals cant.
its not humans fault that there are stuborn, stuffed up homeless people out there.
but the ones who are hungry and want a home, i feel that they should be helped.
the government is doing something about homeless people anyway.
as for poverty, well... its not our fault if there government takes the donations away from the needy and doesnt hep there own country, its not our job to fix that up, australia doesnt need to know things like that because there government can only fix that.
as for animal rights, well, thats a world issue, thats something that everyone should be focusing on.I've found that the needy/homeless are in their current situation generally because they made stupid decisions repetitively. They smoke, drink, do drugs, gamble, have a dozen kids, something like that.

~Maggot

[!Jazzy!]

yeh... they are pretty stupid, they should think!
why would anyone choose to f*ck up there life?!
if they did well at school and got a job and went to uni, they'd be fine.

[NewAbortion]

yeh... they are pretty stupid, they should think!
why would anyone choose to f*ck up there life?!
if they did well at school and got a job and went to uni, they'd be fine.Agreed. I feel no pity for them. They should fix their own goddamn fucking lives, not expect the government or anyone else to do it for them.

~Maggot

[Kaiser]

Woah there. There are many reasons that a person could be homeless. Sometimes, yeah, it's because they choose to be. Those people piss me off, for sure. But there are plenty of people who were born homeless, who were kicked out of their homes as teenagers, who are disabled in such a way that they cannot work and make a living, or who simply had a long and unfortunate streak of really bad luck... and so on.

That said, animal rights really don't need to be competing with homelessness. To say "it's one or the other" is a false dilemma. People are capable of helping with more than one issue.

Animal rights are tricky, because animals can't stand up and say "hey, woah, what are you doing?" when something is done to them that would be illegal if done to a person. We're humans, do we have an obligation to those outside of our species, other than those we've adopted into our lifestyles (dogs, cats, etc.)? Since we're omnivores I don't have an issue with us eating meat -- animals get eaten whether it's in the wild or by humans, it's pretty normal. Although I'll say that our methods of containing livestock definitely need to be improved, since right now it's pretty fuckin' cruel.

Saying "animals don't understand and can't feel anything about it" is pretty stupid and shows that you (general "you", I've only skimmed the topic) haven't studied animal psychology at all. Only the very simplest of animals cannot feel pain, and most of the animals we kill or harm (aside from those unintentionally, such as if we walk down the sidewalk and end up stepping on ants) are perfectly capable of understanding that they're in danger, that they're being hurt, etc., and many species will experience lasting psychological trauma after abuse. It's anthropocentric to think that only humans have feelings -- we've all evolved from the same stock. There's a clear evolutionary imperative for feelings. If you don't experience a chemical rush of adrenaline when placed into a dangerous situation, you're much less likely to survive. Many animals very clearly show emotions and psychological states.

Remember: we're more similar to other animals than we are different. Never assume that something a human experiences is not experienced by some other species unless there's clear evidence for that being the case.

[NewAbortion]

Woah there. There are many reasons that a person could be homeless. Sometimes, yeah, it's because they choose to be. Those people piss me off, for sure. But there are plenty of people who were born homeless, who were kicked out of their homes as teenagers, who are disabled in such a way that they cannot work and make a living, or who simply had a long and unfortunate streak of really bad luck... and so on.1) True, so I exclude what I said before for children, but only children.
2) If they were kicked out, they can still work; Corey Taylor ran away from home (yes, I know, not kicked out, but he was in the same situation) as a teenager and was homeless for a little bit, but not long.
3) That's why we have disability.
4) There is no completely un-fueled streak of bad luck bad enough to make someone homeless.


That said, animal rights really don't need to be competing with homelessness. To say "it's one or the other" is a false dilemma. People are capable of helping with more than one issue.

Animal rights are tricky, because animals can't stand up and say "hey, woah, what are you doing?" when something is done to them that would be illegal if done to a person. We're humans, do we have an obligation to those outside of our species, other than those we've adopted into our lifestyles (dogs, cats, etc.)? Since we're omnivores I don't have an issue with us eating meat -- animals get eaten whether it's in the wild or by humans, it's pretty normal. Although I'll say that our methods of containing livestock definitely need to be improved, since right now it's pretty f*ckin' cruel.Yeah, those are pretty much my feelings on it.


Saying "animals don't understand and can't feel anything about it" is pretty stupid and shows that you (general "you", I've only skimmed the topic) haven't studied animal psychology at all. Only the very simplest of animals cannot feel pain, and most of the animals we kill or harm (aside from those unintentionally, such as if we walk down the sidewalk and end up stepping on ants) are perfectly capable of understanding that they're in danger, that they're being hurt, etc., and many species will experience lasting psychological trauma after abuse. It's anthropocentric to think that only humans have feelings -- we've all evolved from the same stock. There's a clear evolutionary imperative for feelings. If you don't experience a chemical rush of adrenaline when placed into a dangerous situation, you're much less likely to survive. Many animals very clearly show emotions and psychological states. Elephants are actually the first non-human animals to ever be diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; they just started recognizing it recently. So, obviously, they are prefectly capable of emotions.

~Maggot

[Wise Monkey]

fair enough thats your opinion, but i beg to differ. animals are extremely smart in there own right. i bet you didnt no dolphins can reconise there own reflection in a mirror, that means they are aware of them selves just like a human is, monkeys are the same.
i do eat meat i must say and i really enjoy it and im not totally against killing animals for food cosumption as long as its done humanly. but animal cruelty in people can lead to abuse against humans later on. yes there are starving people but there are starving animals too. animals have been around a hell of a lont longer than we have and they are exactly were we came from, i mean we evolved from them! they are part of us. they help people when no other person can. so what they dont have the exact same entellegence as us, thats the only difference. i read about how this ladies dog was nipping her shirt by her breast, she went in for a test and they found a small cancer lump the size of a pea. the lady would never have gone to get a scan had it no been for her dog. how smart that ? animals can predict storms , earthuakes and stuff before we can , and even or technology can. and almost all inventions we have made have had things to do with animals or what an animal can already do, we have just advanced it. animals like pigs once thought to be stupid are as smart as 4-5 year old children. so in that respect i think animal abuse cases should be treated like child abuse cases, both are just as innocent and in all honesty we need animals to live.

Good point, but still my opinion stands I could care less if Any Animals had intelligents of a 5 year old. The fact is that we use animals, kill animals, and adopt them too. Before you go on tell me how do you know what "animals" are really able to do? Through studies from animal experts, People that know "animals" Through random tests by People not by "animals" themselfs. We As People find the missing link not "animals" We are better.

[NewAbortion]

Good point, but still my opinion stands I could care less if Any Animals had intelligents of a 5 year old. The fact is that we use animals, kill animals, and adopt them too. Before you go on tell me how do you know what "animals" are really able to do? Through studies from animal experts, People that know "animals" Through random tests by People not by "animals" themselfs. We As People find the missing link not "animals" We are better.We can do all of those things and still not treat them like shit. And just because we're "better," that doesn't mean they shouldn't have rights; adults are considered "better" than children because they're older, but we still have rights.

~Maggot

[horsey gal]

^^^^^^^ yupp yup well said

[Wise Monkey]

We can do all of those things and still not treat them like shit. And just because we're "better," that doesn't mean they shouldn't have rights; adults are considered "better" than children because they're older, but we still have rights.

~Maggot

Well said, I am speechless

[!Jazzy!]

We can do all of those things and still not treat them like shit. And just because we're "better," that doesn't mean they shouldn't have rights; adults are considered "better" than children because they're older, but we still have rights.

~Maggot

i agree with that, exept one small thing- we arnt better than animals, people are just curious by nature, so we have invented things to make our life easier- so is that what we call "better".
because technically, if our lives are easier than every other animal, then that just shows that every other species of animals on earth are much more capable for fending for them selves, an shows that they are probably better.

man-kind had to advance to live on (and in the end man kind will probably kill themselves.)
i hope i have made my point clear.

[NewAbortion]

i agree with that, exept one small thing- we arnt better than animals, people are just curious by nature, so we have invented things to make our life easier- so is that what we call "better".
because technically, if our lives are easier than every other animal, then that just shows that every other species of animals on earth are much more capable for fending for them selves, an shows that they are probably better.

man-kind had to advance to live on (and in the end man kind will probably kill themselves.)
i hope i have made my point clear.I agree, actually, I just used the term "better" because that's what Carl said, though I was using it more in the idea that we are above them...in the natural order of things. Like, adults are above children, people are above animals, you know? So, while I think animals are better (see the siggy; people = shit), animals are below us, though, as I said before, that doesn't mean we should treat them like shit.

~Maggot

[PrincessAlice]

well humans have eaten meat for centuries why change a habbit? its the circle of life at end of day

[NewAbortion]

Was that directed at me?

~Maggot

[Lindsay]

cows and pigs and other animals are bred these days to be eaten. And most of the time, they don't suffer when they are killed. If the slaughter house or whatever treated their animals badly, they would get shut down by the inspectors that regularly check the place. I'm a vegetarian, not because i feel its wrong to eat animals, but because i don't like the taste. I think animal rights are good, but to a certain degree. PETA does a lot of good things, but they also get all high and mighty over stupid shit, and make videos about how pooly animals are being treated that have been edited in their favor. its sort of stupid, because all these animals die anyways, why can't it be foor a good cause like feeding people? what good are cows and pigs anyways except for milk and meat?? nothing really.

[PrincessAlice]

Was that directed at me?

~Maggot

i wasn't directing it at anybody stop trying to start a arguement and being so defensive

[NewAbortion]

i wasn't directing it at anybody stop try to start a arguement and being so defensiveDude, chill. I was just asking, I wasn't trying to start anything, which is quite obvious, considering I got off right after I posted that. I'm really not in the mood to debate right now. I just wasn't sure, so I asked. You're the one being defensive here, not me.

~Maggot

[PrincessAlice]

can i just say don't call me dude i hate the word i'm a girl not a guy so just don't use it when talking to me

ok ok sorry if that sounded like i was being defensive i wasn't trying to be

[NewAbortion]

I know you're a girl (the avvie was kind of a hint), but I call everyone dude, regardless of sex.

And the same applies to me; if you're capable of sounding defensive when you're not, aren't I?

~Maggot

[horsey gal]

cows and pigs and other animals are bred these days to be eaten. And most of the time, they don't suffer when they are killed. If the slaughter house or whatever treated their animals badly, they would get shut down by the inspectors that regularly check the place. I'm a vegetarian, not because i feel its wrong to eat animals, but because i don't like the taste. I think animal rights are good, but to a certain degree. PETA does a lot of good things, but they also get all high and mighty over stupid shit, and make videos about how pooly animals are being treated that have been edited in their favor. its sort of stupid, because all these animals die anyways, why can't it be foor a good cause like feeding people? what good are cows and pigs anyways except for milk and meat?? nothing really.


yes true animals like that are bred for human consumption but its not so much that thats the problem , its things like the thousands of animals like the pit bull fighting dogs or wild animals caught and beaten then used for entertainment.

yea i hate it how some companies do take it to far sometimes.

animals need some one to stick up for them and rescue them because we ( humans ) are the idiots who put them in that postion in the first place, animals were completely fine and can manage themselfs if it wasnt for out interferance and greed its our responsibility because its our mess.

[!Jazzy!]

yes! yes! great opinion!
humans are like the monsters of the world.
why is it that humans have to be so stupid!

[NewAbortion]

yes! yes! great opinion!
humans are like the monsters of the world.
why is it that humans have to be so stupid!As the great, wise Corey Taylor once said: "people = shit." That, young grasshopper, is why humans must be stupid.

~Maggot

[PrincessAlice]

no no he got it all wrong he said "people = shit" but he ment "tieknot = shit" :p

[NewAbortion]

. . . . . . .
I will not even dignify that with a proper response; it is far too immature and inconsequential.

~Maggot

[Pearson]

What sort of rights are we talking about here?

[!Jazzy!]

almost every rights, seeing as most of them have been taken away.

[Lindsay]

yes true animals like that are bred for human consumption but its not so much that thats the problem , its things like the thousands of animals like the pit bull fighting dogs or wild animals caught and beaten then used for entertainment.

yea i hate it how some companies do take it to far sometimes.

animals need some one to stick up for them and rescue them because we ( humans ) are the idiots who put them in that postion in the first place, animals were completely fine and can manage themselfs if it wasnt for out interferance and greed its our responsibility because its our mess.

eerr...what animals get beaten up and used for entertainment? times have changed. zoos and other places can't get away with being cruel to their animals, at leased not for long, because PETA and other organizations get on their asses in a heartbeat.

[NewAbortion]

eerr...what animals get beaten up and used for entertainment? times have changed. zoos and other places can't get away with being cruel to their animals, at leased not for long, because PETA and other organizations get on their asses in a heartbeat.That's a naive thought. Dog fights are still very common, they happen all the time, and so do cock fights.

~Maggot

[!Jazzy!]

animals are always beaten for entertainment, some countries dont know the meaning of civil.

[Lindsay]

That's a naive thought. Dog fights are still very common, they happen all the time, and so do cock fights.

~Maggot

thats a rarity. in countries such as mexico where people pretty much do whatever the fuck they want, maybe.

[NewAbortion]

thats a rarity. in countries such as mexico where people pretty much do whatever the f*ck they want, maybe.No, it's not, trust me. It's not that uncommon, even in the US. But have you ever seen the fur farms in China? Those animals have no rights.

~Maggot

[Lindsay]

No, it's not, trust me. It's not that uncommon, even in the US. But have you ever seen the fur farms in China? Those animals have no rights.

~Maggot

ah well the US. thats not suprising.

[NewAbortion]

ah well the US. thats not suprising.Why's that? We have laws against it.

~Maggot

[Pearson]

almost every rights, seeing as most of them have been taken away.

every right? So theyl be voting next year?!

Why do people have pets, whats the point in it?! I hate animals - they should live in cages and we should eat them. Thats what there life should consisit of.

[NewAbortion]

every right? So theyl be voting next year?!

Why do people have pets, whats the point in it?! I hate animals - they should live in cages and we should eat them. Thats what there life should consisit of.That's not what she was saying. Someone asked what rights we're talking about, and she said almost every right, because they've been taken away.

That sounds like a wonderful life. I'm glad to know they couldn't possibly develop any mental disorders from such trauma.

~Maggot

[mean_girl]

i have seen people in my town, try to hit cats and rabbits with there cars, there not gonna eat them, just because they think its fun!
and the poor little kitten who was ran over several times by and gang of kids with bycicals.
and even caged chickens is a form of cruelty, yeah sure, there not getting whipped or hit, but they never come out of there cage, unless they die!


omygod,, thats soo cruel ! :( ,, heartless

im not the biggest animal fan,, but i wont kill an insect,,
i remember once ,, watching a bunch of ants moving around the corner of my bathroom ,, so i just spilled water at them so they would go away,,, but then they died
omgod i felt sooo guilty,, poor little ants just hanging around the bathroom,, and then boom,, theyre lifes over :(


so how about animals !!

thats so sick and cruel if somebody treats animals cruely,, it should be something inside that person thats sick and that person really needs help,,,

[horsey gal]

Quote:
i have seen people in my town, try to hit cats and rabbits with there cars, there not gonna eat them, just because they think its fun!
and the poor little kitten who was ran over several times by and gang of kids with bycicals.
and even caged chickens is a form of cruelty, yeah sure, there not getting whipped or hit, but they never come out of there cage, unless they die!


omygod,, thats soo cruel ! :( ,, heartless

im not the biggest animal fan,, but i wont kill an insect,,
i remember once ,, watching a bunch of ants moving around the corner of my bathroom ,, so i just spilled water at them so they would go away,,, but then they died
omgod i felt sooo guilty,, poor little ants just hanging around the bathroom,, and then boom,, theyre lifes over :(


so how about animals !!

thats so sick and cruel if somebody treats animals cruely,, it should be something inside that person thats sick and that person really needs help,,,

yea some people are desgusting and seriously need help. i remember seeing a news report about two young teens that burnt these caged cats alive :(


Why do people have pets, whats the point in it?! I hate animals - they should live in cages and we should eat them. Thats what there life should consisit of.

why the hell should there life consist of that, what the hell did they do to deserve that? bloody nothing ! if humans wernt so high and mighty then we could cage and abuse the people that hurt animals, see how they like it .
having an animal as a pet has proven to help releave stress in some people and when you form a bond with your pet they can end up saving your life.
an the fact of the matter is animals keep this dam planet alive, even the insects and plants are all linked, its only when humans developed there higher intellegence that things started going wrong, we may be advancing scientificlly but mentaly we are killing everything, with our pollution our abuse to animals and each other. people pretty much have no perpose because with out us this planet and all the other animals would be perfectly fine.

[!Jazzy!]

every right? So theyl be voting next year?!

Why do people have pets, whats the point in it?! I hate animals - they should live in cages and we should eat them. Thats what there life should consisit of.

YOU SICK F*CKING C*NT! HOW CAN ANYONE TALK LIKE THAT! YOU HATE ANIMALS? WELL YOU MUST HATE YOUR SELF, BECAUSE HUMANS ARE A SPECIES OF ANIMAL!

[Pearson]

YOU SICK F*CKING C*NT! HOW CAN ANYONE TALK LIKE THAT! YOU HATE ANIMALS? WELL YOU MUST HATE YOUR SELF, BECAUSE HUMANS ARE A SPECIES OF ANIMAL!

Dear god. You refered to animals as different to humans all the time in this thread so dont try that one now. I find it so strange why people like animals so much, i fucking hate dogs more than anything. They should all be killed now, somebody tell me whats the point in a dog?! Im not a sick fucking cunt, animals arent humans. They're not the same as us, they shouldnt have any rights, what every we want to do to them - within the realms of decensy we should do.

[Dani_x]

I havent really read past the 1st page ot this but..i agree animal cruelty is 100% wrong, i hate it. But at then end of the day what ever anyone tries to do its never going to be enough to stop it happening. yeh ok we can try by ringing RSPCA when you think a animal is in danger and what ever else you said can be done...but really, how many people on here acctually do anything like that??
And i think its right us eating meat because we need to eat to live, animals eat animals so why is it wrong for us to eat them? EVERYTHING is made to die at some point in its life.

[!Jazzy!]

i agree with that 100%
but pearson sounds like a cruel sicko who (if he had a dog, wich he probs dont) would beat up his dog(if he had one).
animals need rights, if they didnt have rights the world would be miserable and all species of animal would be gone due to poachers who dont give a f*ck just like pearson.

[horsey gal]

Dear god. You refered to animals as different to humans all the time in this thread so dont try that one now. I find it so strange why people like animals so much, i f*cking hate dogs more than anything. They should all be killed now, somebody tell me whats the point in a dog?! Im not a sick f*cking cunt, animals arent humans. They're not the same as us, they shouldnt have any rights, what every we want to do to them - within the realms of decensy we should do.

the point of a dog is this

farm dogs- farmers could not live with out them ,they help round up stock which end up on your plate. ( unless your a vegitarian )

they are guide dogs- they give the blind eyes

there are rescue dogs - they save people trapped under snow, under fallen buildings and rubble, there are life guard dogs that leap from bloody helicopters to save drowning people.

guard dogs- they help protect you or bulidings or whatever, there are even dogs in some country ( sorry i cant remember the exact one ) that protect the farmers livestock from cheetahs and other wild animals.

police dogs - they are trained to take down unruley people , they even will take a bullet for there handlers which shows more bravery than some people.

there are the dogs that sniff luggage at airports to stop bomers or elegial ( sorry i suck at spelling ) smugling of drugs and stuff. because they can pic the smell up way before any human or even machine can detect them right now.

there are grey hound dog racing - enterntainment

they also are used as a family pet and if a close bond is formed they may save the persons life, some special organisations take dogs in to elderly homes which help relieve bordom , help give them stimulization and generally make them feel better.

they evolved from wolves which is why we have them today humans have developed the most of the different breeds today and kept them alive by the reasons i said above. dogs were still " mans best friend " even in egyptian times as well as cats so they are part of our history and so should be aloud to be part of our future.

there are more but i cant think of them right now.



i agree with that 100%
but pearson sounds like a cruel sicko who (if he had a dog, wich he probs dont) would beat up his dog(if he had one).
animals need rights, if they didnt have rights the world would be miserable and all species of animal would be gone due to poachers who dont give a f*ck just like pearson.

yup yup i agree.

[!Jazzy!]

and pearson, lets see you answer this one...
if humans arent animals, why is it that deep research has shown that we evolved from apes? why is it that some races still have ape-like characteristics? (im not trying to be offensive).
scientists have uncovered a fish with lungs! one of the many missing links of how we got to be human.
in another 1000 years you will see that man-kind will have slighlty evolved again.
and in another 1000,000 (if we ever survive that long) man-kind will have andvanced so much, that people like you will look down on us and think of us as worthless nothings, as "just animals", thinking that there "higher intellagence" is proof that they arent animals.
its basic scientific fact that humans are a species of animals!
if everyone in this world had an attitude like you, man-kind would be the only living animal species left; wich would lead to cannibalism.
i have so much more to say, but it would just make this post longer than it already needs to be.
basicly, i dont like the way you think your so superior. (not really basicly, but close enough.)

[!Jazzy!]

hah! i knew you'd be too dumb to answer that!

[horsey gal]

hah! i knew you'd be too dumb to answer that!

lol . yeeeea well done jazzy :p

[!Jazzy!]

go me-e its my birthday! gonna party- oops, its not my birthday yet! :P i will have to find a more appropriate song soon...

[metal-maniac-13]

i dont have a problem with animals or their friggin rights......

[!Jazzy!]

good on ya! :D

[buthy-13]

i dont have a problem with animals or their friggin rights......

yep
;/

[Tommeh!!!]

to be honest...as animal rights fanatics like to attack people and cause them misery....i think its my right as a human rights protester, to go and rip on some animals.

[Pearson]

i agree with that 100%
but pearson sounds like a cruel sicko who (if he had a dog, wich he probs dont) would beat up his dog(if he had one).
animals need rights, if they didnt have rights the world would be miserable and all species of animal would be gone due to poachers who dont give a f*ck just like pearson.

I would never waste my time beating up a dog. They dont deserve my time. I would never have a dog, I hate them. There just pointless creatures. This world needs to reavulate how important animals are. They are nowere near as important as humans, I will never give anymoney to animal charities, an animal doesnt deserve my money - what does it do to deserve it? Il only give moey to charities like Cancer research and stuff.

[Pearson]

and pearson, lets see you answer this one...
if humans arent animals, why is it that deep research has shown that we evolved from apes? why is it that some races still have ape-like characteristics? (im not trying to be offensive).
scientists have uncovered a fish with lungs! one of the many missing links of how we got to be human.
in another 1000 years you will see that man-kind will have slighlty evolved again.
and in another 1000,000 (if we ever survive that long) man-kind will have andvanced so much, that people like you will look down on us and think of us as worthless nothings, as "just animals", thinking that there "higher intellagence" is proof that they arent animals.
its basic scientific fact that humans are a species of animals!
if everyone in this world had an attitude like you, man-kind would be the only living animal species left; wich would lead to cannibalism.
i have so much more to say, but it would just make this post longer than it already needs to be.
basicly, i dont like the way you think your so superior. (not really basicly, but close enough.)

the key word there is evolved. We are not apes. We are better than all other animals, go and have a conversation with an ape if you think were the same. Go and shit in the woods with the rest of your wonderful animals friends.

[!Jazzy!]

why do you think animals are worthless pieces of shit?!
they have feelings and they know whats going on.
just because they cant talk to us, doesnt mean they are stupid!

[horsey gal]

why do you think animals are worthless pieces of shit?!
they have feelings and they know whats going on.
just because they cant talk to us, doesnt mean they are stupid!

yea can give us a real reason to why you dont like animals ? ususally people who hate animals with a passion ( which seems to be you ) is because they have had a bad experience or know some one who has . either that or they dont actually hate them they are actually scared of them. so why do you hate them so much ?? saying they are just worthless is not a real reason.


I would never waste my time beating up a dog. They dont deserve my time. I would never have a dog, I hate them. There just pointless creatures. This world needs to reavulate how important animals are. They are nowere near as important as humans, I will never give anymoney to animal charities, an animal doesnt deserve my money - what does it do to deserve it? Il only give moey to charities like Cancer research and stuff.

i hope for the animals sake that first sentence is true.
you say this world needs to reavaluate how important animals are and they are not as important as people, well then can i say why the hell do we keep criminals alive, what is the perpose of that ?
if a dog bites someone its killed but if a person kills another person they get jail for a little while , i mean wtf ? and i dont seem to sound heartless or anything but why do we keep mental people alive , what perpose do they have ? i think the world needs to reavaluate how important animals are all bloody right , because they are more important than what we think they are and its not really reconised, well as far as rights go anyway, we also need to reavaluate how important the human life really is , because for some reason people have it in there mind that humans should be kept alive no matter what, wereas with animals we say ' i think its kindest if we put it to sleep ' or ' the animal is a danger so needs to be put down ' .

[Mel]

to be honest...as animal rights fanatics like to attack people and cause them misery....i think its my right as a human rights protester, to go and rip on some animals.

Because it's the humans FAULT that the animals are suffering, human rights has nothing to do with the animals. What an immature thing to say.

I'm a vegan and an animal rights activist.

This thread is a joke. Wtf

[NewAbortion]

Because it's the humans FAULT that the animals are suffering, human rights has nothing to do with the animals. What an immature thing to say.

I'm a vegan and an animal rights activist.

This thread is a joke. WtfI think his point is that a lot of animal rights activists are fucking crazy, basically. Like PETA.

~Maggot

[Pearson]

why do you think animals are worthless pieces of shit?!
they have feelings and they know whats going on.
just because they cant talk to us, doesnt mean they are stupid!

They dont know whats going on. If you brought animals to grow up in cages they wouldnt go, 'hold up, I dont belong here,' they'd just go along with it. How anyone can compare an animals life to a humans life is beond me. To the lass who said about killing 'mental' people and criminals. Truthely in which order would you put these in terms of should be alive; incient animals, 'mental' people or criminals?

[NewAbortion]

They dont know whats going on. If you brought animals to grow up in cages they wouldnt go, 'hold up, I dont belong here,' they'd just go along with it.The same could be said for children. Sure, they're grow out of it, but that's only because they eventually see other things. If they never did, they'd go along with it too.

And, of course, that can still cause mental issues. If you don't care, well, I suppose then there's truly no hope for you.

How anyone can compare an animals life to a humans life is beond me. To the lass who said about killing 'mental' people and criminals. Truthely in which order would you put these in terms of should be alive; incient animals, 'mental' people or criminals?Innocent animals come first, for me. That's a personal opinion, but I would choose an innocent animal over a criminal or a mentally ill person any day (except for under certain circumstances).

~Maggot

[Tommeh!!!]

Because it's the humans FAULT that the animals are suffering, human rights has nothing to do with the animals. What an immature thing to say.

I'm a vegan and an animal rights activist.

This thread is a joke. Wtf

haha, dont worry love, i dont really think that. t'was merely for reaction.

this thread IS a joke, what people are forgetting is that a debate is a discussion of differing opinions....meaning this thread isnt a 'i dont like you opinion so im gonna call you a cunt and put you down for it'.....thats just pathetic.

so people who are relentlessly attacking Pearson...get a grip, learn how to hold a decent debate.

Pearson...come on man, stop winding em up :P

[Tommeh!!!]

I think his point is that a lot of animal rights activists are f*cking crazy, basically. Like PETA.

~Maggot

i do hold that opinion to a degree...ive met my fair share of nut jobs.

[NewAbortion]

haha, dont worry love, i dont really think that. t'was merely for reaction.

this thread IS a joke, what people are forgetting is that a debate is a discussion of differing opinions....meaning this thread isnt a 'i dont like you opinion so im gonna call you a cunt and put you down for it'.....thats just pathetic.

so people who are relentlessly attacking Pearson...get a grip, learn how to hold a decent debate.

Pearson...come on man, stop winding em up :PI agree in that aspect. I've not done that, have I? I really hope not, and if I did I apologize.

~Maggot

[Tommeh!!!]

nono, youve been doing what the thread is about.

[NewAbortion]

Sweet. I was worried there for a second.

~Maggot

[buthy-13]

i hate dogs and kitties
but i looooooooove horses and sharks and snakes :)

[Pearson]

Innocent animals come first, for me. That's a personal opinion, but I would choose an innocent animal over a criminal or a mentally ill person any day (except for under certain circumstances).

~Maggot

Truely unbelievable.

[NewAbortion]

Truely unbelievable.*laughs* See my siggy. Nuff said.

~Maggot

[Sweetest.x.Sin]

I agree.
If I saw someone trying to run over Cats like the ones in your area running over a Cat with their bicycles, I would pull those little Cunts off their bikes and kick their fucking asses.
So if anyone here likes being cruel to Animals and does it in front of me, it just may be the last time you ever move again.

[Tommeh!!!]

depends what you mean by cruel, i do love animals and thats not disputeable...yet im a keen shooter...however, id tone down internet threats...some people can exploit that as a not very sensible thing to do.

[buthy-13]

yeah animals are cute
beside we don't eat all of em if thatz what u mean
i only eat chicked fish and beef >>gaot and cow
yummyyy :P

[Pearson]

yeah animals are cute
beside we don't eat all of em if thatz what u mean
i only eat chicked fish and beef >>gaot and cow
yummyyy :P

yer suppose so. Argument over. Animals are cute.

[NewAbortion]

yer suppose so. Argument over. Animals are cute.It's generally best to ignore what buthy says. Scratch that, it's always best to ignore what she says. And it gives me a headache, personally.

~Maggot

[!Jazzy!]

whats wrong with what buthy says?

[!Jazzy!]

I agree.
If I saw someone trying to run over Cats like the ones in your area running over a Cat with their bicycles, I would pull those little Cunts off their bikes and kick their f*cking asses.
So if anyone here likes being cruel to Animals and does it in front of me, it just may be the last time you ever move again.

thats a great attitude to have towards the sickos out there! everyone should be like that. all species are in this world together, and since humans are the more powerfull and "smarter" we should know better and we should support other species. because if no one gave a shit we would be the only species on this planet.

[Pearson]

thats a great attitude to have towards the sickos out there! everyone should be like that. all species are in this world together, and since humans are the more powerfull and "smarter" we should know better and we should support other species. because if no one gave a shit we would be the only species on this planet.

Lmao - why have you put smarter with " "

[punk-rocker]

It's generally best to ignore what buthy says. Scratch that, it's always best to ignore what she says. And it gives me a headache, personally.

~Maggot

rude !!!!
why r u always like this ??
dont be so rude !!

7ashaaaa ....... buthy u know wt 7asha means .. haha !!

[NewAbortion]

rude !!!!
why r u always like this ??
dont be so rude !!

7ashaaaa ....... buthy u know wt 7asha means .. haha !!Tis one of the great mysteries of the universe. Possibly because I feel like it? And I do shit when I feel like it.

~Maggot

[Pearson]

Tis one of the great mysteries of the universe. Possibly because I feel like it? And I do shit when I feel like it.

~Maggot

To be fair I dont think you're that bad. You just say whats on your mind and stick for your self. Ignore them.

[NewAbortion]

To be fair I dont think you're that bad. You just say whats on your mind and stick for your self. Ignore them.Haha, "that bad". But, thank you, I guess. I should ignore them, but a combination of boredom and stuborness tend to outweigh my good judgment.
On topic: Animal rights. *sigh* Well, I'm very much for animal rights, and I personally find it disgusting how much of a lack of respect there is for animals. That's probably the only thing I don't like about you, Pearson; you have no respect for animals.

~Maggot

[buthy-13]

pssshh

[NewAbortion]

pssshhWhat does that-...nevermind, I'll, for once, keep my mouth shut.

~Maggot

[buthy-13]

What does that-...nevermind, I'll, for once, keep my mouth shut.

~Maggot

yeah

give you a point in that

[metal-maniac-13]

for the million time animals are NOT cute , there is nothing cute about animals. :)
i dont give a shit for the natural world.

[jUsT a GiRl]

for the million time animals are NOT cute , there is nothing cute about animals. :)
i dont give a shit for the natural world.

yh

only humans r

but some animals are cute (like you):P:D

[buthy-13]

yh

only humans r

but some animals are cute (like you):P:D

how dare you say dat about him:P

i agree with u loooool:P:D

[Tommeh!!!]

in my opinion, some animals are cute...and cute or not they should have rights...like abusing animals isnt cool...and not likeing animals is fine, if you dont like em, its your choice...but people who maim or kill animals for a laugh really need to get a grip of life...maybe value it a little better.but having said that...people do kick the arse out of animal rights.

[Kate]

Thats Why im a Vegetarian :D

[Brunette]

I Love Animals !

[Nintendus]

I have not read the rest of this topic, as I really do not want to go through 101 posts, but this is my view on animal rights.

For food:
It is only natural that they be eaten. They are below us in the food chain and the top predator on the Earth has always eaten animals below it on the food chain, we are no exception. If there was an animal higher in the food chain than us, then we would be it's food. I think the idea of vegetarianism is ridicolous.

For testing:
Perfectly justifiable. They do not feel pain anywhere near as much as humans, and it is neccessary. I could quote so many examples where it has helped, for instance an untested eyeliner in America blinded people.

Beating animals:
the thing which was mentioned in the first post, this is not justified at all. On the other hand there are much worse problems in the world.

[NewAbortion]

For testing:
Perfectly justifiable. They do not feel pain anywhere near as much as humans, and it is neccessary. I could quote so many examples where it has helped, for instance an untested eyeliner in America blinded people.Wrong. They feel pain just as intensely as humans do. If you kick a dog, he will actually feel more pain than if you were to kick a human with the same amount of force.

~Maggot

[Nintendus]

Wrong. They feel pain just as intensely as humans do. If you kick a dog, he will actually feel more pain than if you were to kick a human with the same amount of force.

~Maggot
They feel it but research shows that they cannot comprehend it as well as a human. Producing a similar result. (Although I admit that is a very debatable topic between scientists at the moment)

Also the part of my quote you copied was about animal testing (making your example slightly irrelavent), and I believe they use anaesthetics as well.

[NewAbortion]

They feel it but research shows that they cannot comprehend it as well as a human. Producing a similar result. (Although I admit that is a very debatable topic between scientists at the moment)

Also the part of my quote you copied was about animal testing (making your example slightly irrelavent), and I believe they use anaesthetics as well.Just because they can't "comprehend" it, that doesn't mean they don't feel it, that just means they don't understand. And, of course, still, neither is an excuse for allowing animal testing.

No, it's not at all irrelevant. Pain is pain, regardless of the cause. And you said they don't feel "pain" as intensely, and my example involved "pain". What kind of pain, however, is irrelevant.

They don't keep animals under anaesthesia the entire time they're being tested; if they did, this wouldn't be such a huge debate.

~Maggot

[buthy-13]

in my opinion, some animals are cute...and cute or not they should have rights...like abusing animals isnt cool...and not likeing animals is fine, if you dont like em, its your choice...but people who maim or kill animals for a laugh really need to get a grip of life...maybe value it a little better.but having said that...people do kick the arse out of animal rights.

or they will extinct and then we will die :P

dun wonna be so futurest

[Nintendus]

Sorry I took so long to reply, I was off doing ICT coursework on another computer.


Just because they can't "comprehend" it, that doesn't mean they don't feel it, that just means they don't understand. And, of course, still, neither is an excuse for allowing animal testing.

This argument will most likely amount to nothing, as it is your viewpoint against mine with no clear evidence to prove either right. I know animals do feel pain, but what I mean by comprehend, is that they do not really feel it. Reactions such as moving away sharply, or whelping are reactions completely bypassing the brain, handled by the spinal chord, same as in Humans. The difference is humans have a more developed brain able to comprehend what has happened and manafest it as pain. I subscribe to the belief that animals are not capable of doing this as well as humans are. Therefore they do not suffer from the pain as a human does.



No, it's not at all irrelevant. Pain is pain, regardless of the cause. And you said they don't feel "pain" as intensely, and my example involved "pain". What kind of pain, however, is irrelevant.

Yes but there is a major difference between kicking a dog and say giving it an injection. I know that there are cases worse than giving an injection, but what people don't understand is that they are not in the majority.



They don't keep animals under anaesthesia the entire time they're being tested; if they did, this wouldn't be such a huge debate.

Yes it would. Pain is only part of the testing debate. The other half involves thing such as unnesseccary humilation of the animals (such as when they show pictures of animals with lipstick on), and bad living conditions. Things that certainly need improving.


In my opinion testing on humans is wrong, also not as effective in many cases. Apart from animals and humans there is no substitute they could possibly use for testing, and the testing is necessary.

[NewAbortion]

This argument will most likely amount to nothing, as it is your viewpoint against mine with no clear evidence to prove either right. I know animals do feel pain, but what I mean by comprehend, is that they do not really feel it. Reactions such as moving away sharply, or whelping are reactions completely bypassing the brain, handled by the spinal chord, same as in Humans. The difference is humans have a more developed brain able to comprehend what has happened and manafest it as pain. I subscribe to the belief that animals are not capable of doing this as well as humans are. Therefore they do not suffer from the pain as a human does.Of course. That's why when you step on a dog's foot, they limp, because they can't feel the pain.

Yes but there is a major difference between kicking a dog and say giving it an injection. I know that there are cases worse than giving an injection, but what people don't understand is that they are not in the majority.No, I'm not saying giving it an injection. Note that this is about animal testing. When we test on an animal, we have no idea what's going to happen to it.

Yes it would. Pain is only part of the testing debate. The other half involves thing such as unnesseccary humilation of the animals (such as when they show pictures of animals with lipstick on), and bad living conditions. Things that certainly need improving.That's true, so allow me to rephrase that:

If they did, this wouldn't be part of the debate.

In my opinion testing on humans is wrong, also not as effective in many cases. Apart from animals and humans there is no substitute they could possibly use for testing, and the testing is necessary.That's not wrong, as long as the person knows what they're doing. If they don't, then I'll agree it's wrong. But, tell me, why do you think it's wrong to do to humans? Because of the risks?

How could it be not as effective if they're testing something that's going to be used on humans? Animals and humans don't react the same way to certain things, so it would actually be more accurate to test on humans.

~Maggot

[Nintendus]

Of course. That's why when you step on a dog's foot, they limp, because they can't feel the pain.
That is again a reaction to pain, a physical manifestation, but I said they cannot comprehend the pain to as greater sense as a human can.


No, I'm not saying giving it an injection. Note that this is about animal testing. When we test on an animal, we have no idea what's going to happen to it.
I am not sure what you mean by that. I meant that the majority of experements would not be that painful to Human or animal. Using an injection as an example because it is the most common method of testing.



If they did, this wouldn't be part of the debate.
That's not wrong, as long as the person knows what they're doing. If they don't, then I'll agree it's wrong. But, tell me, why do you think it's wrong to do to humans? Because of the risks?
A human is a higher life-form than any other animal on the planet, and every animal that has ever existed on the planet. It's intelligence when compared to the other animals on the planet is very high. They also have longer natural life spans. Humans also have connections, family connections are not as strong with other animals, meaning if a human is seriously hurt though testing, their friends and family would be affected as well. I could go on saying humanatarian reasons for it all night, but I think you get the point ;).

It also links in with what I said earlier about humans feeling pain more than animals and suffering from the affects of that pain.



How could it be not as effective if they're testing something that's going to be used on humans? Animals and humans don't react the same way to certain things, so it would actually be more accurate to test on humans.
They react in similar enough ways, enough through testing to show that the product would not be dangerous. The only real exception to that is medicine, which could have different results, but again, they are able to tell if it is potentially dangerous.

[!Jazzy!]

ok, saying that an animal cant comprehend the pain as well as a human, is WRONG!
i have a three legged cat, she lost a leg from a dog attack.
she ran under our house and didnt come out for 2 days.
we took her to the vet and she cleaned out her wound becaus her leg was completelytorn open.
we took her home and made a comfy little bed for her.
but when it come to spraying antiseptic on her wound, she went crazy.
she couldnt stand the sting of the antiseptic.
and when she developed gang green in her leg, we couldnt even touch it, she was in so much pain, that she was moaning, she was moaning because she had no energy left.
we amputated her leg, and she was fine, she was in no pain at all (except when we had to pull the stitches out).

and heaps of small animals that are usually prey, dont display pain at all, because if a predetor sees that they are in pain, it makes them easy targets.

as for the they-dont-comprehend-pain-as-well-as-humans-do thing:
we have to have our shots (injections), yeh we all know that, but when we took our guineapig to the vet, it sreamed its little head off! yet we humans barely feel a thing.

as far as animal testing goes; i think its completely wrong to test chemicals on animals and give them all sorts of horrible diseases and rashes.
why doesnt the company just test it on themselves?!

[Nintendus]

as far as animal testing goes; i think its completely wrong to test chemicals on animals and give them all sorts of horrible diseases and rashes.
why doesnt the company just test it on themselves?! For the reasons I stated in my last post and a lot more.



as for the they-dont-comprehend-pain-as-well-as-humans-do thing:
we have to have our shots (injections), yeh we all know that, but when we took our guineapig to the vet, it sreamed its little head off! yet we humans barely feel a thing.
I didn't think Guinea pigs screamed. Besides that I said earlier that producing noises when in pain, is not handled by the brain.


ok, saying that an animal cant comprehend the pain as well as a human, is WRONG!
i have a three legged cat, she lost a leg from a dog attack.
she ran under our house and didnt come out for 2 days.
we took her to the vet and she cleaned out her wound becaus her leg was completelytorn open.
we took her home and made a comfy little bed for her.
but when it come to spraying antiseptic on her wound, she went crazy.
she couldnt stand the sting of the antiseptic.
and when she developed gang green in her leg, we couldnt even touch it, she was in so much pain, that she was moaning, she was moaning because she had no energy left.
we amputated her leg, and she was fine, she was in no pain at all (except when we had to pull the stitches out).
No it is not wrong, it is as viable a scientific theory as that they do feel and comprehend pain. All of those examples can be explained under the theory as well. Most of those are part of the survival instinct. Hiding under the house, if it was handled by the brain the cat would have seeked shelter in the house. Spraying antiseptic on the wound, all that would do is add more pain to what is already there, and the natural reaction to that is to think the wound is going to get worse. Pulling stitches, same thing.

[!Jazzy!]

well, i noticed you didnt quote what i said about scientists: they are full of shit as far as im concerned (except when they invent a new cure for a disease).
the scientists that reckon theres such thing as black holes, dont even know what a black hole is!
they will never know how an animal handles pain, because they dont know enough about a living animals working brain.
yeh, they might think they know whats going on, but the reality to that is, they will never know exactly how an animals brain works, let alone how the comprehend pain.

and i also noticed you never quoted what i said about hiding pain:
most animals dont display pain as a result of survival. they cant afford to let predetors know that they are in pain, as it makes them easy targets.

and if scientists have this sort of proof on animals, why dont you proove it?

[!Jazzy!]

well, i noticed you didnt quote what i said about scientists: they are full of shit as far as im concerned (except when they invent a new cure for a disease).
the scientists that reckon theres such thing as black holes, dont even know what a black hole is!
they will never know how an animal handles pain, because they dont know enough about a living animals working brain.
yeh, they might think they know whats going on, but the reality to that is, they will never know exactly how an animals brain works, let alone how the comprehend pain.

and i also noticed you never quoted what i said about hiding pain:
most animals dont display pain as a result of survival. they cant afford to let predetors know that they are in pain, as it makes them easy targets.

and if scientists have this sort of proof on animals, why dont you proove it?

[!Jazzy!]

oops! i posted twice! :P

[Nintendus]

oops! i posted twice! lol, I hate it when I do that on forums :P



and i also noticed you never quoted what i said about hiding pain:
most animals dont display pain as a result of survival. they cant afford to let predetors know that they are in pain, as it makes them easy targets.
I didn't quote it because I had never heard of it before. I have heard of them being able to hide fear, but I am pretty sure predators smell blood from wounds not the pain itself.



and if scientists have this sort of proof on animals, why dont you proove it? Neither I nor scientists can definately prove what I have said, but neither can they prove what you or NewAbortion (Is there something I could call you which you preffer, like NA?) have said. That is why I previously stated that neither side can win this part of the debate.

[horsey gal]

and if scientists have this sort of proof on animals, why dont you proove it?

Neither I nor scientists can definately prove what I have said, but neither can they prove what you or NewAbortion (Is there something I could call you which you preffer, like NA?) have said. That is why I previously stated that neither side can win this part of the debate.

then that is why they shouldnt experiment when they dont really know. if they dont know what really happens in an animals brain then they shouldnt be assuming or thinkning because of this this will happen which will result possibly in this happening because they could be totally wrong and it will be at the animals expence.



ok, saying that an animal cant comprehend the pain as well as a human, is WRONG

yup i agree. animals feel pain just the same its only there reactions to it that is different , like what was said they dont show it as much as in the wild it shows they are weak making them more vunreable to predators. i have heard all that before as well. and what makes it worse is that animals dont know what is happening to them in experiments. ( example ) you can tell a person that they are going to get injected and it may hurt but if you tell an animals this they dont understand so they wont cope as well with the pain because technically they didnt know it was comeing , as the same with any abuse they dont understand why they are hurting all they know is they are sore , which makes the after effects more damageing and they dont associate the pain with somthing like the neddle instead they may think it was the person this is the problem with many abused animals they have a fear of humans, and not what ever the human used to abuse them with.

you can tell a person so they can prepare for the pain an animal wouldnt even know it was coming.



I didn't quote it because I had never heard of it before. I have heard of them being able to hide fear, but I am pretty sure predators smell blood from wounds not the pain itself.

the animal may not have an open wound ( which undoubtly a predator would smell ),
if they have like fractured a foot they will limp as little as possible , which in effect make it look like it is in less pain than it really is so a predator wont reconise it is weakened. horses are one type of animal that will do this which is why if theres a little bit of pain it must always be investigated througly not over looked as a minor problem.




They react in similar enough ways, enough through testing to show that the product would not be dangerous. The only real exception to that is medicine, which could have different results, but again, they are able to tell if it is potentially dangerous.

i pretty much cant disagree with that because here we are saying animals are like people so yes they do react in similar enough ways but thing i dissagre with and hate the whole experimenting on animals and testing and stuff is that the animals didnt ask for that, they didnt give permission for there bodies to be mutilated and i think some scientists take it to far . an i feel at the rate we are going now if the animals are wiped out then what will all the little scientists experiment on ? people ?

[Tommeh!!!]

you have made some good points there. especially about the way animals portray injury...ill add to what you said in the fact that they do give off a scent when animals are afraid which is the natural instinct...which is something that we cant measure.

you say if animals are wiped out and then we would have to turn to human testing...but that already happens so that isnt really an issue...as with the recent case of the six (i think it was six anyway) people who tried a medecine that nearly killed them. i can see the positive side to animal testing in some circumstances...but at the same time...if people are gonna be paid for human testing that not an issue at all...live and let live i say...but i do agree that SOME forms of animal testing are unorthadox.

[!Jazzy!]

i agree^

[!Jazzy!]

but the thing about animal testing, i think the majority of animal testing are inhumane and cruel.