Dixie Flag

[Patriot1776]

This is simlar to the debate over St. George's Cross in England, but you will not find this controversy in every part of the United States.

(When reading this keep in mind that I am from the northern part of the United States)

For those of you who don't know the Dixie Flag was used by Confederate General Robert E. Lee during the American Civil War

Dixie Flag: http://www.westhamptonbeach.k12.ny.us/ES/rebelflag.gif

American Civil War Information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

Since the Civil War two states have adopted the Dixie Flag for use in their own flag.

Georgia: http://www.moonrise.org/images/georgiaflag.gif

Mississippi: http://www.southerncupboard.com/MS%20flag.jpg

In 2003 Georgia decided to change their flag. Why? Too many people felt that the Dixie Flag encouraged racism towards blacks and other races, which is entirely false.

As said before, the Dixie Flag was used by General Robert E. Lee. Lee was opposed to slavery, but was a strong advocate of state rights, which is the real reason the Civil War was fought. (The Emancipation Proclamation was not issued until after the Battle of Antietam)

Therefore, the flag has nothing to do with racism, but Southern pride.

Since the Confederates almost won the war and inflicted more damge to the federal armies than the British (American Revolution and War of 1812) and Mexican (Mexican-American War) combined, they have every right to feel proud and should be allowed to fly the flag wherever they want.

Just my opinion. What do you think?

[Luke]

Fly the flag. It's their flag so bloody well fly it.

[Patriot1776]

Agreed.

[gprime]

Just an FYI, the "dixie flag" you linked to was only their battle flag, not their primary flag. It would make sense for people to object to the use of a battle flag. But since that is never the arguement, and instead all they address is the supposed flaws of the confederacy, where once again their complaints remain invalid. The most common claim is they were racist because they had slavery. The problem with that arguement is that only a tiny portion of southern whites owned slaves, while at the same time, a large number of free blacks owned slaves. There were over 5000 black slave owners by the time the North started the civil war. And besides, there were slave states who fought against the confederacy during the civil war, with the Emancipation proclaimation not applying to them. So clearly the North has no superior ground with respect to morality. To be frank, the confederacy was complying with US law and was the victim. If anything, we should be ashamed of the American flag, not the confederate flag.

[Patriot1776]

Although I respect your opinion, you might want to get some of your facts straight.

1.When most people envision the Dixie Flag, they envision the battle flag.

2.The North did not start the war. The war began when the Confederates fired upon Fort Sumter.

3.Although only a tiny portion of the South owned slaves, most of them were pro-slavery.

4.Most of the slaves who fought against the Confederacy had escaped from the South.

5.Immediately after the war the South issued the laws that did not change a single ting over slavery except the name.

6.By the end of the war EVERY state was required to abolish slavery.

7.As said before, the war was started to preserve the Union. At the time the issue over slavery was not fought over. (Although that is what sparked the war.)

So, yes, the South didn't exactly get the fair end of the deal, but they certainly can't be considered a "victem" when they started the war itself.

[Artemis]

(with above)

I think that the flag does have it's controversial pros and cons but if itz their flag -'let em' wave it'

[Patriot1776]

When you think about it, every major nation has something to be ahamed about. Therefore, every major flag has something controversial surrounding it.

[gprime]

Although I respect your opinion, you might want to get some of your facts straight.

1.When most people envision the Dixie Flag, they envision the battle flag.

2.The North did not start the war. The war began when the Confederates fired upon Fort Sumter.

3.Although only a tiny portion of the South owned slaves, most of them were pro-slavery.

4.Most of the slaves who fought against the Confederacy had escaped from the South.

5.Immediately after the war the South issued the laws that did not change a single ting over slavery except the name.

6.By the end of the war EVERY state was required to abolish slavery.

7.As said before, the war was started to preserve the Union. At the time the issue over slavery was not fought over. (Although that is what sparked the war.)

So, yes, the South didn't exactly get the fair end of the deal, but they certainly can't be considered a "victem" when they started the war itself.

1) Right, because that's what people continued to carry. My point is that in choosing that flag, as opposed to any of the three incarnations might be the only grounds for criticism.

2) Yes, but the Union established a context for it to happen.

3) Yes, but that is hardly relevant to the point I'm making.

4) True, but many slaves, according to Confederate records, fought voluntarily in the South.

5) Not true. They took away rights, but not to that extent.

6) I know that. But my point is that by the point of the Emancipation Proclaimation Lincoln hadn't done that.

7) Which is why it violated the US constitution.

[Patriot1776]

1) Right, because that's what people continued to carry. My point is that in choosing that flag, as opposed to any of the three incarnations might be the only grounds for criticism.

2) Yes, but the Union established a context for it to happen.

3) Yes, but that is hardly relevant to the point I'm making.

4) True, but many slaves, according to Confederate records, fought voluntarily in the South.

5) Not true. They took away rights, but not to that extent.

6) I know that. But my point is that by the point of the Emancipation Proclaimation Lincoln hadn't done that.

7) Which is why it violated the US constitution.

1. Nothing wrong with that first point.

2.The conflict over slavery was created by citizens, not the Union government itself. Lincoln actually was not planning to do anything about slavery, nor were Congress

3.It is relevent to the point you are making. You used it in your original argument.

4.Yes, some did, but most of them were house slaves. House slaves rarely received the treatment that slaves out in the fields did.

5.True in most states. While the Black Codes differed from state to state most of them required that blacks continue to work for their former master. Some states allowed blacks to take other jobs, but even then they had to pay somewhere around $100 in order to recive a liscense to do so. (Most slaves did not have a penney to their name)

6.No the Emansipation Proclamation has not done that, but it certainly furthered the anti-slavery sentiment in the North.

7.How is fighting to preserve the Union unconstitutional. Firing upon a federally commisioned fort is high treason. The Union soldiers were acting upon the COnstitution when it came to handling treason. (John Brown, an antislavery activist, was executed after his raid at Harper's Ferry. He was not tried for being antislavery, he was tried on charges of treason. Harper's Ferry was a federally commisioned ammunition dump.)

[gprime]

As per #7, it is unconstitutional to the extent that states have the right to succeed from the Union.

[Patriot1776]

Yet they did not have a right to fire upon Fort Sumter in the process.

Therefore, they brought the war upon themselves.

[imnini]

im a southerner and im proud of it. I still fly the flag today. its a peice of my history and i dont see why anyone should be offended by it. i live in alabama an we fly a version of the flag as our state flag. i live in the heart of the south and i am not a rasis bitch. im am proud of who i am and where i live. if you dont like it you need a damn good history lesson

[fraggled]

Thats the symbol of the south as whole I can't point out how many people in Houston still fly the "Southern" flag, and I see alot of black people fly it too so people should stop saying that it is a "sign" of racism because that is completly false.

[imnini]

Thats the symbol of the south as whole I can't point out how many people in Houston still fly the "Southern" flag, and I see alot of black people fly it too so people should stop saying that it is a "sign" of racism because that is completly false.

thank you i agree:x: people need to take a

[sweet8060]

I think they should be able to fly it. I may live up north but I was raised in the south and I have alot of Southern Pride. For me it has nothing to do with racisim.

[imnini]

i agree hunny it aint racisim

[sweet8060]

Grrr my neighbors claim I have too much southern pride now that they've had a tour of my house. Grrrrrrrrrr I hate people that are stupide about stuff and think that every1 has to be exactly like them.

[fraggled]

Grrr my neighbors claim I have too much southern pride now that they've had a tour of my house. Grrrrrrrrrr I hate people that are stupide about stuff and think that every1 has to be exactly like them.

If they think you have to much Southern Pride wait till they come to my house, American Flag with the Texas Flag with the Southern Flag right under it. And I live in Kansas, they fuckin hate that shit here, but its all about my hometown baby, its on a 150FT pole and I put up lights last summer so I could leave it up all night too. I only wear boots like I'm back home. I have a strong Houston accent, I still say words like hed instead of head and and when cussing er is always a like mutha fucka. And I have that Southern Instinct, if somone steps up I'm the first to swing, if a gun goes off im the first gone not even gonna look back. People from the north always try and act like tough guys when guns go off, souther people break the fuck out like they were the ones being shot at.

[sweet8060]

If they think you have to much Southern Pride wait till they come to my house, American Flag with the Texas Flag with the Southern Flag right under it. And I live in Kansas, they fuckin hate that shit here, but its all about my hometown baby, its on a 150FT pole and I put up lights last summer so I could leave it up all night too. I only wear boots like I'm back home. I have a strong Houston accent, I still say words like hed instead of head and and when cussing er is always a like mutha fucka. And I have that Southern Instinct, if somone steps up I'm the first to swing, if a gun goes off im the first gone not even gonna look back. People from the north always try and act like tough guys when guns go off, souther people break the fuck out like they were the ones being shot at.

God Ol' Southern boy got to love it .